[prole]

Disclosure:

I am the author of this blog post. I previously worked in IT before coming to China almost a year ago. Currently, I teach English and enjoy reading, researching, and writing with the free time this new profession affords me.

I've lurked HN for a while, but haven't given back in any way until today. My friend enjoyed this piece and encouraged me to share it to a wider audience, so here you are.

[bilbo0s]

Wow, where are you at?

It sounds like you are hearing a lot of pro-Google sentiment, but here in Ningbo, all I get from people is anger. Curiously enough, the anger is not about Google or the censors, but it seems more about the West 'trying to push China around...' or 'trying to keep China down...'

So much so that I've learned to avoid even remotely political conversations with people here.

Maybe I should start hanging out with more English speakers, but then I wouldn't be able to learn as much of the language.

Sigh...

[ntoshev]

Same old story: a corrupt government invokes patriotic feelings to counter attacks against itself from abroad (or inside, associate the opposition with external forces and call them traitors). I'm so sick of this.

[Quarrelsome]

Yeah but to be honest it's H.Clinton's fault for providing them with ammunition. What else did she think she was going to achieve by adding her weight to the argument? It was completely unnecessary and IMO a diplomacy fail.

It's the same with Ahmadinejad, most Iranians don't like him but they'll be "for" him if the Western world is being seen to deny them nuclear power.

[nostrademons]

Sounds an awful lot like the Bush administration in the aftermath of 9/11 and the buildup to the Iraq war...

[prole]

I'm in Harbin, but location has little to do with it since this pertains more to cyberspace than meatspace. The pro-Google sentiment I refer to in the beginning was coming from mostly Western blogs and social news sites. For a Chinese netizen perspective, chinaSMACK translates comments from popular BBSes here (though I don't know about authenticity/bias - my Chinese isn't that good yet). Here's an example regarding the Google announcement: http://www.chinasmack.com/stories/google-threatens-leaving-c....

It's difficult for me to gauge the Chinese reaction on my own, though. A handful of translated comments or an online poll don't amount to anything, really. Doubly so once you're aware of the "50-cent gangsters" who are paid to astroturf online (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party and http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20091221_1.htm). The best resource I have are my adult students who spend the time online and can give me their impressions. So far, their responses have been to the tune of: "If Google leaves, what am I going to do!? I use GMail and many other services, and the search engine is better than Baidu for finding information in English. It's a critical part of my work!"

It should be noted that all of them (university-level and older) are aware of the censorship, they just have differing ideas on its necessity.

Do they feel like the West is unfairly criticizing China? The Party loves playing the victim, probably because Western media affords them ample opportunity. What better way to unify the Chinese and distract them from a growing number of domestic problems than an enormous external enemy? But it's probably not always the direct work of the government - the Chinese are culturally cohesive, where the group is more important than the individual. Nationalism and its ilk pop up so often in the discussions here with students, it's frightening. (I used to live in Japan before coming here, and naturally it comes up when meeting new people. Actually having to try and reassure some people that modern Japan does not want to invade China and enslave them is unreal.)

Honestly, it's tough to say if such anti-Western reactions are genuine (thought out and justified) or just an internalized defensive mechanism.

[DenisM]

Quote: This is exactly why Microsoft won't see a red cent from the Chinese for their software: why pay a premium for the legitimate version when the copy does the exact same thing for cheaper?

When I worked at Microsoft I got to listen to people working on relationship with China around software licensing (i.e not Bing). Accordibng to them the micro-software sells very well there. It was not a smooth sailing by any means and it took a lot of work, not unlike it took Bill Gates a lot of work to start selling software in the US when people were copying it for free instead in 1970s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Letter_to_Hobbyists). The visit of Chinese president to Microsoft campus couple of years ago has symbolized the turning point.

Could you help me reconcile your point quoted above with the first-hand information I was presented? Thank you.

[prole]

This quote was a generalization, but aimed at ordinary users. As mentioned in this article describing Microsoft's efforts in China (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/...), after years of failed attempts, MS was able to turn its image around from hostile to gentle software giant and convince the government to "go genuine." In order secure those buyers, MS drastically cut prices, but given the enormous number of Chinese government users, it's probably still netting a decent fortune.

As for those ordinary users who often trawl underground software/movie markets, they are the ones who will probably never be tempted to "go genuine." They aren't under pressure from the MS/PRC back-scrubbing to do so. It's likely that most people don't need to find a Windows CD if they've already purchased a computer with it pre-installed, but anything else is open game. The vast majority of these ordinary users are purely driven by cost, and if they're buying the cheapest pirated CDs (hey, even pirates have to compete), that money isn't making it's way back to Microsoft.

As an aside, the biggest reason why I would never buy from these markets in China is that some of the software is infected with trojans. "You get what you pay for," right? ;)

[DenisM]

In other words Microsoft has sewn up the preinstalled PC market and the government market (the two biggest markets), and have left after-market to pirates (the smallest market).

Surely your Microsoft won't see a red cent from the Chinese was more than a little exaggeration?

[mlLK]

> I've lurked HN for a while, but haven't given back in any way until today. My friend enjoyed this piece and encouraged me to share it to a wider audience, so here you are.

Off-topic, there, you were warned, but I've never understood lurking HN, reddit, digg, or any other karma-driven web community since all it takes is an upvote or downvote and suddenly you are no longer lurking. I mean why not create an account to simply save what you like? I think there is this sensitivity towards karma that affects HN more so than other communities, both good and bad, given it's intellectual user base and it's alliance to pg. IMO, karma is merely an indicator of user input and a value the rest of that community (the hive-mind) assigns for each input; my point being that as long as you're upvoting and downvoting anything you're still contributing, not lurking.

[vorg]

Speaking as another globalized ex-IT worker teaching English in China...

There were 2 points raised by Google...

(1) requiring google.cn results to be censored. This doesn't affect me, I just use google.com

(2) increased censorship over the past year, e.g. blocked sites, including blogger and all blogspot pages, all google groups subpages, and of course youtube.

This affects me!

Using proxies on blogspot doesn't help because the firewall detects the actual html content. Free vpn connect addresses are also very quickly blocked.

Google services seem to have been singled out here. Just seems like domestic industry protection.

[stingraycharles]

Thanks, you're an excellent writer, I'm looking forward to your next contribution.