[tptacek]

But everyone can do more, including Apple. Meanwhile, I think if you build a scoreboard for this, it's not at all clear that Apple is ahead of Google.

[chaz72]

Google's not making a public case. And Google, as far as I know, can read messages you send on Google services. Those are both Big Deals. I don't disagree (I don't have the expertise to!) with what you said on Apple and browser security. There are many parts.

Everybody can step up their game, I absolutely agree there.

[sarciszewski]

Ugh, scoreboards. Historically, they've only caused confusion and muddied the waters. :(

[mindslight]

Erm, Google's business model is to perform MITM for economic advantage. The popularity of this business model is what rekindled this "debate".

Their use of TLS is like an amateur's use of XOR - a secure primitive in a very narrow context that ignores the big picture. Google is the type of backdoor the skinjobs are grooming us to accept.

I think it's only a matter of time until Apple Inc lands on "Game Over", but Google is playing an entirely different game.