[aikah]

> It "might" look intuitive at first[1], but the network just becomes unreadable as soon as you have more than 10 nodes or non-linear behavior

It works for DSLs in video-compositing apps , "learn to code apps" , yahoo pipes like apps or VST plugin coding apps ( and to a certain extend you could argue that working with DAWs is programming, I mean Logic has some kind of visual programming environment, so does Ableton Live)

It doesn't work for anything complex that would be normally be done via typing actual code.

I mean it has always been the case.IMHO Anyone that says he can invent something that can replace typing instructions in a text editor[1] and give a better experience to a professional programmer that way is lying.

But VISUAL PROGRAMMING is great for learning how to code, I learned coding, OOP and all that stuff in Flash 15 years ago, dragging and dropping some stuff and seeing the result visually in a matter of micro seconds was enjoyable, felt rewarding and motivated me to explore programming further. It was a shoehorn into the world of programming.

1: It doesn't mean one cannot improve text editors and IDEs, I think there is a whole LOT of room for improvement in order to make typing programs painless, and I'd like to see more research and experimentation done in that specific area, because it feels to me we're still stuck into BORLAND era when it comes to IDEs and nothing has evolved since that time.

[tenfingers]

I have nothing against the blocks&arrow model. I just find it [sometimes horribly] inefficient.

For instance, in a video-compositing application (something like nuke - to put a name) it makes sense, especially so you can represent/preview the state of the filter in the block itself, but it's far from being an efficient method to input or manipulate. If you have experience by programming in any classical language with a grammar, it should be self-evident.

I find myself thinking I could represent the same graph in a much more compact and logically structural way using a written grammar, albeit doing that loses some given visual aspects like previewing.

I was explicitly asking if there is anything else available.

[golergka]

As a software engineer who have spent a fair amount of time building and modifying ensembles in Reaktor, I don't honestly see how these structures would be easier to build in code. Their conplexity comes not from environment, but from the meaning they represent; I doubt that connecting 5 LFOs, 3 oscillators and a step sequencer in VIM would be a much better user experience then dragging cords with a mouse.

[moron4hire]

Check out CHucK some time. http://chuck.cs.princeton.edu/

It might not be a completely professional grade platform, but I think it's a good proof of concept of how plain-text programming can build good sig

[aikah]

How do you think Reaktor itself is coded ? that's the point I made in my comment.

[golergka]

What does this point prove? The point of visual programming is in user experience of completing appropriate tasks.