[geofft]

The thing to understand is that these students clearly don't inherently care for the class. The graduation requirements list it, and either they care about the subject matter and can learn it in better quality and better time on their own, or they don't and they're not paying to learn.

Somehow in between the "younger generation" and the previous one, it became impossible to get a middle-class job without a college degree. Doesn't really matter what you learned, but it's a basic expectation that you made it through those four years.

And the world does owe people a fair chance at a living. To the extent that that involves a useless college degree because people want the credential, yes, the world owes them that.

Frankly the academics should just admit that their own incentives don't include teaching, give students easy exams, and get on with research. There's no reason for them to do otherwise, and if they try to be better at teaching than they need to and run into conflict, they're the ones who are acting entitled.

[pc86]

> it became impossible to get a middle-class job without a college degree

Not true, I did fairly well as a software engineer after dropping out of school, and having finished my degree it hasn't made any difference in my day to day (except people think I'm a decade younger than I actually am based on the date on my resume).

> And the world does owe people a fair chance at a living. To the extent that that involves a useless college degree because people want the credential, yes, the world owes them that.

The world owes you exactly nothing.

[geofft]

Since you are nitpicking my meaning of "impossible," let me rephrase. It is generally far more difficult, for most people, to get a middle-class job without a college degree than with one, and it generally does not matter if they learned job-relevant subject matter in that degree.

The fact that you, personally, did so is simply an anecdote.

[jarek91]

I have no degree. I attended exactly two of the three semesters of college for which I paid. I make a very nice living running servers and writing code at my company. Before this, I have worked in construction and as the guy under your car in one of those quick oil change places. I've been an outboard mechanic. The world owed me nothing. I have made my own way and earned everything that I've gotten. I respect hard work and I understand that I will sometimes fail. I learn something from every experience.

I'm sorry but your attitude here that the world owes you _anything_ just goes to further prove my point. Life is not fair. It never has been and never will be. You can sit there feeling sorry for yourself because the world treated you unfairly...for which will get you absolutely nothing...or you can go out there and do whatever you need to do in order to make it through this day so you can try for a better day tomorrow. The onus is on you and not the world. You want something better then show the world that you will work for it.

Two things come to mind for me in this:

1. The "younger generation" is going to have to learn to take responsibility for their failures as well as successes. There seems to be a real problem with the former.

2. To use the words my father repeated to me almost daily during my teenage years when we worked together: "If you aren't going to give it 120% in whatever you do, don't even bother getting out of bed."

[sofaofthedamned]

I'm similar to you - only went to University for 1 year when I was 20 just to get on a placement, where I showed enough aptitude in programming to get taken on permanently. That year was awful, being taught by professors who knew less than me, and would only teach COBOL as "that's what you'll be using for your entire career"

My partner is the most intelligent woman i've met, and she's very senior at a decent Uni in England - she teaches staff and PHDs how to teach, and gives keynote speeches around the world in this.

Even SHE knows the University system is fucked. For her, it won't be replaced by MOOCs, though they will be part of the mix.

Her Uni have got a (semi-secret) plan to amalgamate professional quals like a Cisco CCNA for example into the credit path for a 'normal' degree. The idea, long term, is to have learning as a lifelong thing, as opposed to something you do when you're young and can't be arsed. Eventually the government would give credits to people in work who've paid their dues so they can do courses relevant to them and universities would be open all hours.

I don't think it'll work out, but we can only dream...

[gravypod]

It's funny how much has changed. Today, we are learning python and Java because python and Java are all you will ever need.