[whatever_dude]

Incorrect.

WhatsApp could not deliver what the judge requested, even if they wanted to. Messages are encrypted end to end and not kept in their servers.

The Judge requested something impossible. predictably, WhatsApp and Facebook did not comply. The Judge threw a hissy fit and decided to block the service, affecting everyone who uses it (95% of the Internet users in the country).

A similar thing happened years ago when a Brazilian actress tried to get a paparazzi video out of YouTube. The heavy-handedness of Brazilian government got the whole website blocked.

Mark Zuckerberg's complaint is about how any local judge can just order a country-wide order (which is something I also find baffling). This was not a supreme court decision.

[iraphael]

Apparently, Whatsapp is only end-to-end encrypted on Android, where it uses TextSecure. On iOS, it still uses RC4.

[simoncion]

Do you have a cite for this?

Signal (née TextSecure) runs on Android and iOS, with an in-development Chrome extension (or whatever) to run where Chrome runs.

[001spartan]

The initial announcement of the partnership between WhatsApp and TextSecure ( https://whispersystems.org/blog/whatsapp/ ) states that it was only for the Android WhatsApp client, and I'm unable to find an update saying that it has been added to the iOS client.

[simoncion]

Oh. Thanks for digging that up.

This quote from the post really stands out to me:

"WhatsApp runs on an incredible number of mobile platforms, so full deployment will be an incremental process as we add TextSecure protocol support into each WhatsApp client platform. We have a ways to go until all mobile platforms are fully supported, but we are moving quickly towards a world where all WhatsApp users will get end-to-end encryption by default."

It seems... unlikely that the crypto integration would be left half-done. I guess I could find a Whatsapp user with an iDevice and another with an Android device and look at the software UI for clues. :D

[whatever_dude]

You are probably correct. They adopted TextSecure on Android near the end of 2014, but I'm not sure of the state of iOS.

[personjerry]

Banning the middleman in this communication here is kinda like banning pen and paper because people are writing notes to each other.

[whatever_dude]

"Hey someone committing a crime is writing notes to each other! Quick, order all pen manufacturers to send us copies of everything people are writing!"

"Sir the pen manufactures said they can't comply"

"Ok that's it, stop the sales of all pens"

Then everyone starts using pencils.

[bduerst]

Seems okay if the pencil manufacturers are complying?

I guess I don't get the analogy.

[kijin]

Pencil manufacturers can't comply, either, because their pencils are not equipped with sensors and antennas. None of the mass-market writing instruments do.

To extend the analogy, the government might order all manufacturers to build sensors and antennas into every writing instrument. That might work, until people start smuggling cheaper, foreign-made, non-spying pens into the country.

[lucasnemeth]

that is correct, I would also add that through the current Marco Civil law, the requests must be technically possible, if not they shouldn't be taken into consideration.