[guard-of-terra]

In Russia, communists won the Civil War precisely because they were talking about the new utopia.

Because, the other side said: "we will win the war and then decide what to build". That's why I even struggle name them, other than "white" (as opposed to communist "red").

[vezzy-fnord]

The Whites were pretty clear in their goals, I'd thought: preservation of monarchy and status quo.

A more interesting counterfactual would have been Menshevik victory.

[guard-of-terra]

Except most of them were actually republican, supporting Provisional Government.

It was a wide coalition of monarchists, republicans, orthdox priests and military. Their only common ground was perhaps dislike and fear of reds (and that turned out very justified).

[chimprich]

> Their only common ground was perhaps dislike and fear of reds (and that turned out very justified).

Getting wildly OT now but the atrocities and systematic killings performed by the Nationalists absolutely dwarfed the isolated killings on the Republican side, perhaps by a factor of ten to one.

[guard-of-terra]

I'm sorry, who are nationalists that you're talking about? Is it the right civil war? Only thing coming to my mind is ukrainian nationalists, Petlura, that kind of thing.

[chimprich]

Ah sorry, I thought you were referring to the Spanish Civil War as discussed by the original poster. I failed to notice the thread had shifted context.