[woah]

Wrong. The surveillance state does not follow laws, and it has all the dirt it could ever want on politicians. Laws are not a solution here. The first rule of security is "don't trust the network". Computer scientists and developers who build systems that require users to trust the network are uniquely culpable. This is an unpopular opinion here because many of us would like to continue collecting hefty paychecks while washing our hands of any responsibility for our actions.

[nickpsecurity]

You're way off. The people and politicians knew to get a grip on this decades ago when they discovered all the abuses of CIA, etc. They had two main choices:

1. Create accountability mechanisms a la GAO working alongside these organizations ensuring they follow the law and imprison offenders.

2. Create a court that approves most of what they do, never imprisons offenders, and operates in secret.

America went with No 2. Further, most of those caught red-handed didn't do time. Americans also didn't push hard for reform with their votes. Intelligence and oversight fought back and forth but effective immunity let their corruption and power expand over time. It went into overdrive post-9/11 where people not only didn't do crap: they encouraged giving secrecy, vast power, and criminal immunity to the very groups that failed pre-9/11.

So, this didn't happen in a vacuum and isn't today. American's apathy and frankly ignorance is what gave scumbags a series of blank checks with immunity. Americans didn't do anything learning about Iraq WMD's, 2008 frauds, Snowden leaks, and so on. Largely nothing but griping. Meanwhile, in Iceland, they straight up overthrew their dirty government after 2008 abuses and passed new laws protecting their citizens. Exactly what Americans have to do.

Let's say they don't. Then, Congress continues passing police state style legislation, secret agencies bribe our ISP's/whoever, fabs eventually get compromised, dissidents are harassed via many means, opponents with dirt are jailed via parallel construction, patent system will be used against tech companies trying to solve it, and so on. Damn near pointless to try to technologically solve a problem that a country's citizens and politicians are creating and expanding with laws that can attack users of the tech.

All this shit is Americans' fought. Their common sense should've told them giving God-like knowledge and power to already-dirty groups was stupid. Doing it with secrecy and immunity was stupider. Not doing anything post abuses was foolish. My money is on them still being fools aiding surveillance state 5 years from now. They have to wise up and remove the internal threats' legal authority before technical solutions have a chance.

[woah]

This comment doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

What's all this talk about America? We've been talking about China the whole time. You're seriously blaming the Chinese people for their heavy-handed government? By focusing their work in directions that harm freedom, computer scientists and developers make it easier for the Chinese government to use surveillance to hold onto power.

[nickpsecurity]

I'm talking about the surveillance state in America. My points apply to surveillance states in most democracies, though. China is a rather extreme situation. Yet, the points still apply: their people at the mercy of a corrupt government means the government can use laws and money poured into harmful tech to continue to hold them down. The solution, even there, will be aimed by the people straight at the government.

[im2w1l]

>You're seriously blaming the Chinese people for their heavy-handed government?

Yes.

[silentplummet]

>American's apathy and frankly ignorance is what gave scumbags a series of blank checks with immunity. Americans didn't do anything learning about Iraq WMD's, 2008 frauds, Snowden leaks, and so on. Largely nothing but griping.

Hold on, I think you're giving the average American way too much credit here. My mom has at various times said that the police state is a good thing, the FBI should be able to view anybody's data for any reason, and groups the state names as terrorists should be denied freedom of speech.

[nickpsecurity]

Yeah, there are plenty of those... an even bigger problem.