[lonestar]

Perhaps they should have announced the monthly fees before the delay. I'm more than a little disappointed to find out that I'm not getting it on time, and that I might unexpectedly have to pay a monthly fee once it does ship.

[jacquesm]

Any piece of hardware that has a contrived monthly fee attached to it should be avoided.

[latortuga]

Satellite TV? Tivo? Hell most internet connections are this. A bit of an over-generalization.

[jacquesm]

No, not really. Those are not contrived, they simply wouldn't function without the online component.

But this devices would works as good, or even better if it did not need outside connectivity.

It's just a way to turn a device into a service.

[asb]

They've answered this concern on Twitter:

"all the planned features are still free! we've developed some new awesome premium features that we're planning on charging for."

http://twitter.com/wakemate/status/8102380070

[maxklein]

This is pissing me off more and more. How do I know that these "premium" features are not the actual features that I want? They may just give me the bare minimum, and since I already invested $50, they now try to squeeze more money out of me by withholding the good stuff.

Tell me this stuff before you make me pre-order. Let me be aware what I am getting into. I thought that the hardware is what you pay for, and the website and all awesome upgrades would be free. But it seems the hardware is just the entry ticket, then they will do the usual - premium, solo, business bullshit to try to make me pay them $99 a month or whatever.

This is bullcrap, and I feel it is dishonest marketing. I would not be pissed off if they just asked me to put my email on a list. But they asked me to give then $5! Then turn around and stab me in the back. No, I don't want your product anymore.

When I give you money, we have entered into a very different kind of relationship, and you have given me the right to get pissed off about you and complain on the internet.

[teej]

The negative tone in this thread is incredibly out of character of Hacker News. What happened to civility?

If you have a problem with the way they handled these delays, I can understand. Getting delayed -sucks- and getting a crappy response sucks worse. It reminds me of dealing with airlines - they already have my money and can't manage to give me a straight answer.

But please consider giving these guys a break. Hardware is hard! It's a delicate balance between software and electrical engineers. You can't avoid outsourcing production - a process that's hard to manage for cost and quality standards. You don't just hack a site over a weekend and go from there. It takes tons of planning and lots of risks. It is not easy.

If you don't like it, at least give them the benefit of common curtesy. Email them sternly and politely and request your money back. Problem solved.

[maxklein]

You know why I'm harsh now? Because this is just a small community. They are dealing with a mass-market product - if they discover the things that piss off customers now, they will know better how to do things in the future.

Yes, hardware is hard, but if you coddle a business then it will grow in expectancy that things will just fall in their lap. They made a serious mistake - it annoys me, and I'm telling them. If they think that I am wrong for saying my opinion, then they will repeat the mistake and they will piss off more customers that way.

I was really really a big fan of their approach when they launched. But they fucked it up. They did something wrong, and because they belong to this community, we could pat them on the back and say - oh you'll do better next time - but the customers do not belong to this community. The customers don't give a shit who YC or PG are, all they know is this same feeling I am feeling now. And they will convey the same impression to their friends, other potential customers.

WakeMate is not launching a new concept. They are entering a market with established competitors. They need some tough love, because they just played bad with their greatest asset.

Their greatest asset is the fact that they have a direct line to the early adopter community, through this site and through the YC program. This social network is what they can use to leapfrog over competition. Apart from that, they have little compared to FitBit and others.

If they mess with their core advantage, people have to let them know. There HAS to be a negative tone so that they know they fucked up. If we are all nice and dandy, then they will merrily go on whistling down the road till they discover that the cliff started a few steps back.

They fucked up. I am angry. I am communicating this to them, so that they know how what they did makes their customers feel.

If you feel it is not neccessary to communicate this to them, then it is you doing them a disservice.

[daleharvey]

you have implied that they lied about ever having a product and that their company is falling apart behind the scenes because their shipping was delayed and mentioned they have premium features. both of which I think everyone expected anyway.

I dont think they announced their premium stuff in the best way, but you went well past the stage of giving constructive advice, or "tough love"

[lanstein]

Whoever came up with this email should employ the George Costanza tactic - take your instincts, and do (write) the opposite.

[lanstein]

Exactly. Also, for many people, it's not the $5 or $50, it's that they were really looking forward to using the product because they wake up tired every morning. That to me is the issue, the trivial amount of money customers paid up front is not.

[BRadmin]

In the email they mention delays due to new innovations -- so basically, I won't be getting my product on time because they were developing a premium service I didn't know about and will now have to pay for to benefit. Doesn't seem right...

[spydertennis]

I'm sorry if it seemed that way. The new features are in software and the delays are mostly hardware related. I would be pissed too if it was delayed because we were trying to squeeze more money out of you. That's not the case.

[BRadmin]

Appreciate the clarification.

I think the non-conciliatory tone and some of the content from your email is a little off-putting to a lot of folks.

Whereas most people were expecting to receive an actual product within a week or two, we're now told we'll have to wait indefinitely; words like "tentatively" "first batch" and "as early as" convey this.

If we're waiting because the hardware got better, give us some specifics instead of keeping it vague. I was under the impression the WakeMate was already awesome -- if it's delayed, tell me what you've been working on and improving to show me why I should still be excited about this, why you guys did me a favor by delaying.

The delay email is also functioning as an introduction to PREMIUM features (at a cost) that nobody was aware of, which feels out of place in the context of the message's initial intent.

I'm sure you guys are working hard and round the clock, but unfortunately we don't get to see and experience that, live and breath the company with you guys. All we're aware of is the image you convey in the few paragraphs you send to us. As a company that people have invested in, that has taken money from soon-to-be customers, you need to be ultra-cognizant of how you present to us.

[9oliYQjP]

I've worked in places where we've hired professional writers to get out our message. At first, like any smug technologist who thought he had a perfect grasp of the English language, I thought they were a waste of money. But what I didn't realize is how well professional writers can empathize with readers.

First off, I'm not too upset with the email I received. But your email suffered from mixed messages.

In 1999 here in Toronto there was a huge snowstorm. We received 1.2 m of snow that month. We ran out of places to store the stuff (e.g., once it's ploughed in a city you can only pile it so high, it must be trucked elsewhere at some point). Everyone was beginning to get pissed at the city government for how it was handling a situation which, remember, was out of its control. All they could do was react. I remember one memorable news briefing in which the head of the department responsible for clearing our roads got up and issued a statement. I'm paraphrasing from memory (and assembling some facts via Google). But it went something like this:

"We have 800 city staff, 1400 contracted workers, and over 500 military personnel currently working around the clock to clear the snow. They are collectively using 2000 pieces of heavy equipment including ploughs, ice melters, salters, and front-end loaders. That said, Toronto has 5600 km of roads and 7945 km of sidewalks. We cannot clear all roads and sidewalks instantaneously and it will take some time. We believe we can clear the highways and main arterial roads in the next 24 hours. If needed, military personnel in Bison vehicles will respond to 911 calls in order to transport victims to the hospital. It will take several more days to clear side streets and we will need your help. You will be notified when your street will be ploughed. Please remove parked cars so that we can accomplish this task more easily. You will not be ticketed for parking elsewhere during this time. If you do not move your car, it may be towed to an adjacent street at no charge."

The mood seemed to change after that. The statement single-handedly accomplished the following things. It:

-clarified the scope and magnitude of the problem we were facing in a manner that everyone could understand

-reassured people that the government was on top of things by providing specific facts

-set manageable expectations

A statement like the following would have been way better received I think (I'm making up some facts of course):

"Wakemate launched 75 days ago as a 2 person startup. We began pre-orders 50 days ago to incredible demand. In fact, we have received over 5000 pre-orders which is above and beyond our wildest dreams for initial demand. We are currently working 7 days a week around the clock in order to get you your Wakemate as quickly as possible. But we are sorry to inform you that we will not be able to meet our original deadline of January 25th. Instead, we anticipate that we will be able to fulfill our pre-orders over the course of the next 90 days. So that we may more effectively address the orders, we need to know what device you will be using the Wakemate with and who your service provider is (link to survey). This information will allow us to prioritize shipment and provide you with more specific shipping dates. You will receive another email by February 15th detailing such information. Should you have any questions or concerns about your pre-order, please email us at..." (leave the whole premium feature spiel for the follow-up email as there is nothing that customers can do to utilize these features now anyway)

[levirosol]

Just now seeing this thread. I posted my thoughts regarding the reply here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1072131