[jackcosgrove]

If it were still up and running, I'd link you to regretsy.com for a primer on most people's level of creativity. But it's gone so now all I can say is that it showed the worst "user-generated stuff" people posted to Etsy.

Not buying it - we have specialization and professionalization in part to maintain quality of work. Everyone cannot be, and should not be, an artist.

Anyways, if no one had to work, most people would just do drugs.

[sytelus]

No one says everybody needs to be creative or artists or mathematicians or scientists. All I'm saying is human life is too precious to keep assembling iPhones for 12 hours a day or bag groceries at Walmart. I think assertion that everyone start doing drugs if they need not do jobs shows utter and incomprehensible ignorance. Sure, not all are creative but that's not the requirement to have a life without mandatory jobs you don't want to do. People may turn in to beach bums or surfers or just hippy wanderers - whatever. It's their life they got one shot at living and it's still better activity than forcing them to flip burgers mechanically at McDonnalds 10 hours a day.

[forgottenpass]

Anyways, if no one had to work, most people would just do drugs.

And when people do have to work, they just alternate between drugs that make them better workers, and drugs that let them forget work.

[Florin_Andrei]

It seems like the basic blueprint of the human being, at every level, requires a certain amount of constant stress to function properly, an external challenge to the capabilities or even integrity of the system. At every level. Purely physical (motion), immunity, emotional level, intellectual level, etc.

Unless we change the blueprint in a massive way, we won't do well in a life of complete leisure.

[TazeTSchnitzel]

What humans consider leisure is simply enjoyable work. If there is no "work" work and just leisure, we're fine.

But not if there's nothing to do at all.

[kaybe]

If they had fun making it, why not? Not everyone will go to the Olympics..

[jackcosgrove]

People aren't thinking enough about what life would be like with no responsibilities. The sort of internal reward you're describing would be hollow because people would still see others' work that was better than theirs, and they would feel jealous. And ultimately everyone would know that it was all a sham, and that humanity was unnecessary and living in a zoo of its own creation.

Most of my sense of self comes from overcoming obstacles, and I'm sure a lot of people would agree with that sentiment. I'm all for automation and AI doing the grunt work, but I don't want to live in a zoo. We should take the benefits of automation and continue to struggle and exert ourselves, and seek out greater challenges than we could before. Automation as an escape from work? I'll pass.

[xnxn]

> The sort of internal reward you're describing would be hollow because people would still see others' work that was better than theirs, and they would feel jealous.

Well, that's the status quo.

> Most of my sense of self comes from overcoming obstacles, and I'm sure a lot of people would agree with that sentiment. [...] Automation as an escape from work? I'll pass.

You would be welcome to work as much as you like, of course. Obstacles would be self-selected, not assigned by chance or force.

If you live in my hypothetical utopian society and truly feel that humanity must suffer so that you can derive meaning from "the struggle", you might have to emigrate to a polity of like-minded masochists.

[jackcosgrove]

I'm arguing we can't get away from the status quo. If everyone can follow their muse, muse-following will devolve into a pissing contest. And if some people choose to work and others don't, those who work will become wealthier/stronger/more advanced than those who don't. Then there will be conflict between the two. A surplus of resources does not eradicate human foibles.

People were saying the same things in the Edwardian era about progress solving all of life's problems. Then we started World War I to a large degree because people were bored and wanted stimulation. This is just another utopian prediction that won't come true.

[dclowd9901]

Why do you think people wouldn't/couldn't challenge themselves in ways they care about (rather than arbitrary bullshit they have to do for someone else)? Why do you think challenge or accomplishment only comes from your 9-5 job? Have you ever done anything but work?

[jackcosgrove]

Lots of assumptions in your post.

The work we do is not arbitrary bullshit. Civilization takes work to maintain and grow.

[kaybe]

Maybe we have different visions of the future.

I don't think there will be robots to do all the housework for everyone. And there are many areas in the world where it will just not be worth it to automate many things unless you have robots that are as cheap to make and run as humans, and want to exist there by their own right, and also behave like biological beings in the face of environmental influences (sea spray, I'm looking at you).

So take away the hard work in large-scale agriculture, production, research, medical care..., and you are still left with a large amount of things to do. Also, there is a lot that just gives satisfaction from doing it yourself, like making clothes, a house, or cooking. I don't have to make the best meal ever to find it worth it.

[Udik]

Obligatory reading here: Riders of the purple wage, by Philip José Farmer.