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by sotojuan 3854 days ago
It really hurts new CS grads too. They usually go for similar jobs as Bootcamp grads, but may get rejected because they don't have the "practical" experience (i.e. latest frameworks) Bootcamps grads may have. So instead of grooming and training students with a four year foundation in Computer Science, they go for the cheap route and hire someone who just knows APIs.

I admit my post has a lot of generalizations and I know Bootcamp people that are great engineers and CS grads that are not, but I think you get my point. I see a lot of frustration over this in /r/cscareerquestions.
1 comments
dudul 3854 days ago
I would argue that CS grads who do not spend some time learning practical skills on the side are idiots and completely misunderstand the industry they are trying to enter.

Bootcamps claim that they can help people who lack the proper foundations or the discipline to learn on their own, these are assets that CS students should have, they should therefore apply their knowledge and training to learn on their own the tools that are used in the industry.

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sotojuan 3854 days ago
> I would argue that CS grads who do not spend some time learning practical skills on the side are idiots and completely misunderstand the industry they are trying to enter.

I agree, but then I realize I live in a bubble.

Here and in /r/cscareerquestions, everyone knows to do side projects. In my school, most people don't. Neither do my friends in other schools. They may get one internship but that's the only "practical" thing they do (usually good enough to get a job though). A lot of my friends are much busier than me and don't have time to teach themselves stuff on top of school and life, at least not well enough to get a job.

Perhaps we need to stress a bit more practicality in CS curriculum?

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dagw 3854 days ago
Perhaps we need to stress a bit more practicality in CS curriculum?

No, we need to stop telling people who want a career in web development to get a degree in Computer Science. And universities should stop convincing people who really want to be software engineers to study computer science. If you want to work as a structural engineer you'll probably get a degree in structural or mechanical engineering. You don't get a degree in theoretical physics and complain that since structural engineering is just a practical application of theoretical physics your physics curriculum really should be more focused on practical engineering.

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mywittyname 3854 days ago
> You don't get a degree in theoretical physics and complain that since structural engineering is just a practical application of theoretical physics your physics curriculum really should be more focused on practical engineering.

I sometimes feel like we should just call Computer Science what it really is, Applied Computational Mathematics. Because, you're exactly right, there is a disconnect between the teachings and expectations of most CS programs.

Then again, my CS program offered lots of 'practical' courses, like iOS and web development. They even created a BA program that removed most of the math requirements and replaced them with those vocationally related classes.

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dagw 3854 days ago
Then again, my CS program offered lots of 'practical' courses, like iOS and web development. They even created a BA program that removed most of the math requirements and replaced them with those vocationally related classes.

That sounds like great programs that all universities should offer. They just shouldn't call it a CS program.

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sotojuan 3854 days ago
> No, we need to stop telling people who want a career in web development to get a degree in Computer Science.

Also agree, but we tell people to do it because employers ask for it. I guess it's a cycle, but someone's gotta stop it one day.

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dagw 3854 days ago
I think that the Universities could and should be ones to solve this problem. They first of all need to start offering 2 year largely vocation degrees for people who just want to learn the basics of getting a programming job and in addition offer 4 year Software Design/Development/Engineering degrees in addition to Computer Science degrees and really differentiate between the two. Make it clear to the students (and by extension employers) that if you go for a software degree you'll mainly learn X but not so much Y and if you go for a CS degree you'll mainly learn Y but not so much X. Most people currently getting CS degrees should probably be getting a Software Design/Development/Engineering degree.
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sklogic 3854 days ago
> more practicality in CS curriculum

Rename it to SE first and stop pretending it's a "science". Or, alternatively, accept that it's really a science and stop moaning about the careers in the industry. There'll be a lot to moan around the grants, post-doc positions, publish or perish and all the other funny parts of an academic career.

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