[Animats]

On September 21, 1985, Hiroo Tominaga, a Japan Air Lines maintenance supervisor, committed suicide following the crash of JAL Flight 123. The plane had crashed due to maintenance errors, killing 520 people. He left a note, ''I am atoning with my death.'' The CEO of Japan Air lines, Yasumoto Takagi, resigned, after personally delivering apologies to the families of each victim.

That is a proper apology.

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/1985/09/22/world/jal-official-dies-ap...

[ojii]

I hope you're not suggesting committing suicide is a proper way to apologise.

[theorique]

In Japan, sometimes it is.

[Animats]

There are times when it's the proper way.

[gnaritas]

No, there aren't.

[thelastguy]

Well, actually, there are.

In Japan, if you have disgrace yourself and bring shame upon your family, you have to kill yourself. If you don't kill yourself, honor can not be restore to your family.

This means that when your wife goes grocery shopping, people will not sell her food.

When your children goes to school, teachers will talk down on your children. Students will bully your children. Neighbors will assault your children.

At work, all the women will call your wife a slut behind her back, but making sure it's loud enough for her to hear it. Your wife's boss will make sexual advances toward your wife because she is now no longer a respectable woman.

You clan members will disown your father and make fun of him for birthing such a disgraceful son.

When disown by a clan, you and your family can no longer go to them for support in any form (financial, emotional, social, etc).

Police will purposely pulled you over and give your a ticket.

You son will not be able to get a job because no one will want to hire him. No one want to associate with a disgraceful person like him.

All these societal pressures will not stop until you kill yourself and bring honor back to your family's name.

So yes, you have to kill yourself, if you don't want your family to suffer.

[gnaritas]

> Well, actually, there are.

No, there aren't. Just because the Japanese have an old barbaric and dying tradition of ritual suicide, doesn't mean it's proper in this day an age.

> In Japan, if you have disgrace yourself and bring shame upon your family, you have to kill yourself.

No you don't. Those "old traditions" are dying out and no longer seen as necessary by the younger generations.

[TeMPOraL]

I don't think suicide is a proper apology; it makes the world poorer of both a mind an experience learned from the mistake. I can understand if guilt drives someone to take their life, but not when it's cultural pressure that's doing it.

CEO's reaction, on the other hand, is commendable. This is how you're supposed to apologize after a serious fuckup.

[danieltillett]

John I normally enjoy your posts, but suggesting suicide is ever a responsible way to atone is totally wrong. It is a coward’s option - if you did something really wrong then live everyday of the rest of your life with your guilt.