[TeMPOraL]

I think you're putting way too much faith in "free will".

The idea isn't that obesity is 100% caused by bacteria, or genes, or unicorns. Of course it's a function of your eating choices - you can choose not to eat and you won't die a fat man. The problem is that people arguing obesity is "just a choice" and overweight people are "just lazy" are missing the point that some "choices" aren't practical. If obesity was "just a choice", we wouldn't have this problem after decades of massive shaming of overweight people and massive push for fitness and everything-fit. Instead, the more we shame people for being obese, the more population stays obese. Interesting, isn't it?

Anyway, Yvain discusses this and related topics better than I ever could:

http://lesswrong.com/lw/2as/diseased_thinking_dissolving_que...

Also:

http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/10/society-is-fixed-biolog...

[bko]

> If obesity was "just a choice", we wouldn't have this problem after decades of massive shaming of overweight people and massive push for fitness and everything-fit. Instead, the more we shame people for being obese, the more population stays obese. Interesting, isn't it?

Is it inconceivable that some people just value the pleasure they get from eating more than that of adding a few years to the end of their lives? They're not necessarily lazy or stupid, they just may have different values that you. You can ask someone why they're obese and due to societal pressures they may tell you a story about how they can't stop or its genetics, but actions speak louder than words.

Most people have behaviors that is not beneficial to their health (drinking, living in a polluted city, not exercising the optimal amount). Longevity isn't the point of life.

[simplify]

After a certain point, it isn't a question of valuing one thing over another, but instead a question of addiction. People who are addicted to cigarettes smoke them because their body feels the need to. Once hooked, it's _very_ difficult to force yourself to stop.

[StavrosK]

The problem is clearly one of lack of self-control, as with drugs and everything else. The question is why we don't treat obese people as addicts, and try to mitigate easy access to food. If you're obese and your pantry is always full of food, how much weight do you think you're going to lose?

[richmarr]

> The problem is clearly one of lack of self-control...

I'm not aware of enough evidence to say that it's clearly anything... if you have references on this I'd be keen to hear them.

Short of some actual studies in this area, I'm skeptical.

Baumeister's work on ego depletion showed that self-control isn't a constant trait, it varies with other factors, so to show that self-control was the problem you'd have to show that there are no more hidden variables.

[StavrosK]

"Clearly" may have been too strong a word, but what I meant was that lack of self-control is a large component in addiction and we're failing to account for it adequately in obesity.

[richmarr]

> ...self-control is a large component in addiction...

I don't know the literature on addiction. What's that opinion based on?

There's definite evidence to support the idea of physiological or external factors influencing obesity, e.g. gut bacterea influencing food choices, envionmental differences changing things like portion size.

[TeMPOraL]

Which, to circle back to my original comment in this subthread, only shows that indeed people only have an illusion they can, personally for themselves, control (this particular item of) items on the CDC list. "Lack of self-control" as a widespread problem is exactly that.