[JasonCEC]

My company[0] works in the alcoholic beverage industry, and we've been watching the market for Asian and other native alcohols evolve.

I strongly believe that, more than sake and sochu (not soju), Chinese native spirits have a chance to take off globally, even if only because of demographic momentum - the problem is, those beverages don't taste great right now. Bartenders don't want to use it in cocktails, and western palates are prone to hedonic rejection (to use the technical term)[1].

What will happen next?

We've already seen the intrusion of traditional European and American Alcohols throughout Asia, and Baijiu will need to evolve to compete to be something that people want to drink. If there are any distillers reading this, reach out to me[2] - we have lots of experience optimizing flavor profile.

[0] www.Gastrograph.com [1] read: "disgust" [2] JasonCEO [at] [the above URL]

[maxerickson]

How native are they after food science has been used to optimize the flavor profile for consumers in other countries?

[dogma1138]

Anything you eat or drink is "optimized" to the local pallet either intentionally or through the use of local ingredients. You won't find most of the "traditional" dishes in any "ethnic" restaurant in their native country, and if you do they usually won't taste the same. Chinese and Indian food has been almost completely westernized, to the point where even the dishes them selves don't even exist, Japanese dishes have also been heavily effects from deep fried sushi to even the use of Salmon itself (most modern Sushi varieties even in Japan today were heavily influenced by western Sushi) and the list goes on. I think the only restaurants where I've noticed almost no difference between an ethnic restaurant in the west and local cuisine is Ethiopian food (when ingredients can actually be imported and not locally sourced) which tastes, smells and looks pretty much like the local dishes I had the pleasure to experience in Ethiopia. Native food is pretty much non-existent, it is always fused with external influences even in it's native countries, this has especially been true for the past 30-50 years in the developing world as electricity becomes more widespread people are able to get fridges which means they can use perishable ingredients. This means that milk, meat, and other ingredients which would normally spoil and hence would not be traditionally used in local cuisine are becoming part of the local pallet. The use milk products and butter especially in Ethiopian cuisine is quite new but to this "westerner" it was quite clear the difference in the taste when it was used, and many people like it as well even simple things like Couscous have changed traditionally the likes of butter which is a common ingredient now would not have been used because they would be quite hard and expensive to get, and you can't really keep butter from going bad in African or Middle-Eastern weather.

[maxerickson]

I don't think we think the same thing about using food science to optimize something.

I'm talking about turning tortilla chips into Doritos. Tortilla chips come out the way the person making them likes them to come out and get how much salt they like. Doritos are an industrial product with a flavor profile and texture explicitly designed to leave the consumer wanting another one.

[dogma1138]

Tortila Chips them selves are a modern (highly likely american) invention. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortilla_chip They weren't mass produced till the 40's and even indepth research of Mexican and Mexican-American/Lantio-American cuisine can't find even a remote reference to them earlier than the mid 1930's. Nacho's are also not exactly "traditional" Mexican food.

If you refer to targeted optimization for mass consumption of a massively produced product then everything undergoes that process it's not like a "traditional" Chinese product will not be optimized locally to appeal to as many people as possible in the local market (insert a literally billion people pun here). I doubt that all Chinese like their fish sauce exactly the same so I'm pretty sure that which ever fish sauce brand dominates the Chinese market is quite heavily optimized to appeal to as many pallets as possible.

[maxerickson]

Yes, not an ideal example. I was trying to illustrate my meaning more than I was trying to stand up for the sanctity of texmex though.

It's also not the optimization I object to. It's the swaddling of the resulting product in marketing designed to sell it as authentic.

[JasonCEC]

Just as native as French Wine vs Italian wine. Ingredients and production process are what create the product - the optimization is local to the potential flavors inherent from those ingredient processed in that way.