[etiam]

As much as I appreciate what the project is trying to illustrate I would think twice about really signing up for surveillance at second degree of separation. With Five Eyes surveillance reaching to three degrees of separation that makes me 'contagious', pulling every person I contact or have contacted electronically into surveillance as well.

This targeting of not only you but also everyone you've been in contact with is of course one of the reasons the system is so malicious.

As for signing up, then again, maybe it doesn't make that much difference in practice. With the Lists being as long as they are, two degrees of separation would have been a lot of people, but it seems that three would make for virtually everyone. Would I even be able to add my friends to the surveillance systems, or is every single one of us already there...

[nabla9]

>I would think twice about really signing up for surveillance at second degree of separation.

It's amazing how quickly this kind of advice has become a accepted reality in the west. Try to to stay small in the eyes of the government. I hope everyone understands to feel little ashamed if they do this.

[tetrep]

Indeed, it even validates the use of mass surveilance to begin with. After leaks of the keywords that would "put you on a list" at the NSA, some people seem concerned to exercise their liberties, like googling for things in an attempt to avoid being flagged by intelligence agencies. This, of course, makes everything worse, as now there's more reason to commit the spying, as only those truly guilty would ever willing do actions that wind up putting them on a list.

This is also related to the encryption by default debate, were we must acknowledge the very large amount of metadata leaked if we only encrypt our communicatioms/data when we deem them sensitive.

[etiam]

If that's directed at my comment in particular you seem to have completely misunderstood what I was saying.

I'm not advising anyone one way or another about whether or not to connect themselves at second degree to Bill Binney.

Those who would choose to associate themselves with anyone in the Cast Iron category however, would do well to realize that it's a decision that affects many, many more innocent people than themselves.

The current state of affairs in these matters is of course a repugnant one and ought to be ended as soon as possible. If someone believes they can contribute to that end most effectively by inviting an even more extensive automated spy dossier on their every action, those of their friends and of their friends' friends, maybe that is what they should be doing.

Personally I think I object at least as effectively by pulling every person I reasonably can over to securely encrypted communications and educating nontechnical people about what is being done to them.

[anotheryou]

You used TOR, just to check it out? You have some bitcoin? You google strange stuff about electronics, just to know how things work? You downloaded truecrypt? You have a hacker or two in your phonebook? Use VPN?

I bet any signle one of these actions make you more suspicious/interesting than 90% of the rest of the world and probably you did more than one thing in that list. And we all know they basically try to record everything. How are the chances they at least capture the most interesting 10%?

To (loosely) quote the artist: "We, as hackers, artists, political people, ended up on some list anyhow."

[cryoshon]

Yep. The potentially unconventional people are homogenized the most by surveillance. It's hard to be creative when you don't have the secrecy to play around with ideas unseriously.

[cryoshon]

Yeah, the self-censorship described in 1984 is effectively real. People are afraid to speak and write their minds because they the consequences.

[yrro]

I agree with you 100%. But there is no way in hell I'm phoning that number.

[anotheryou]

and this is what makes surveillance so dangerous. It's essentially thought-control for thought-crimes that are not even illegal... Welcome to 1984

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilling_effect