[TeMPOraL]

> My mom has a foundry here in Slovenia and at some point she decided to outsource production of some relatively easy stuff to China, because it seemed cheaper.

Herein lies the reason. Chinese factories will manufacture things with as much quality as you want, provided you pay accordingly. Pay for a good product, you'll get a good product. Pretty much all of electronics you use, including the most high-end devices, was made in China. Most of the Western "Chinese = crap" stereotype seems to be because of Western companies, which pay for low-quality manufacturing.

Also, consider that this "less developed country" builds nuclear reactors, has a space program, and runs better metro lines than most of Europe. They somehow manage not to screw all of this up more than anyone else.

[mindslight]

> Chinese factories will manufacture things with as much quality as you want ... Pretty much all of electronics you use, including the most high-end devices, was made in China.

Agreed.

> Western "Chinese = crap" stereotype seems to be because of Western companies, which pay for low-quality manufacturing.

Eh? If I go on eBay/Aliexpress and order some consumer good, the only worthwhile thing I'm going to receive is the amazement at seeing exactly how far they skimped. I doubt choosing a more expensive listing would yield a better result. Nevermind the many stories I've heard of Chinese manufacturing autonomously substituting different part numbers on a BOM, causing a run to be reworked or scrapped.

This indicates the culture of "good-enough" cheapness belongs to China itself. Yes, it is possible to pay more (meaning supervise more) for quality production in China - if it weren't, everything wouldn't be made there. But this seems like getting quality in spite of Chinese customs.

[TeMPOraL]

> Eh? If I go on eBay/Aliexpress and order some consumer good, the only worthwhile thing I'm going to receive is the amazement at seeing exactly how far they skimped. I doubt choosing a more expensive listing would yield a better result.

I agree about Aliexpress (but note that general wisdom is, you don't buy consumer electronics there - on the other hand, electronics components like sensors, ICs, etc. are of perfect quality there). But most people in the West don't buy on Aliexpress, nor do they even know it exists. The general population's experience with Chinese manufacturing is all the crappy products they buy locally, that have the iconic "made in China" phrase written somewhere. Here you can blame the actual western companies that ordered production of this stuff.

[mindslight]

I've been quite (pleasantly) surprised at the quality of electronic components/tools I've ordered off of Aliexpress/eBay. And yeah the leading indicator seems to be how consumer-focused the item is - A while back I did a test with 4 random 5V1A phone chargers, figuring one or two would be shoddy. The best of the lot could put out 600mA - I didn't even bother opening them up for visual inspection.

I attribute the popular refrain of "Chinese crap" to general simplemindedness bemoaning the state of the world. Your average person is not likely to focus on where a product is made when it works. Since everything is made in China, broken->"Made in China" is the association that gets made.

It's not like people aren't aware that it's the Western companies cheapening things, but they won't stop supporting them and the general unifying factor is still "China". Take something like Harbor Fright - it's clear that everything the store sells is "Chinese crap", yet they're still patronized by the people complaining the hardest. I think people just like to complain rather than act.

[briandear]

So that sort of negates the cost savings then doesn't it? Chinese manufacturing can be good, but that's due to process management. With aircraft, we're talking a much higher level of competency than assembly lines.

[TeMPOraL]

> So that sort of negates the cost savings then doesn't it?

Not necessarily - it still may be (and is) that good quality bulk manufacturing in China is cheaper than equivalent-quality manufacturing in the West.

> With aircraft, we're talking a much higher level of competency than assembly lines.

Why assume that they don't have it? They've proven they have competency at manufacturing (the very device you typed your comment on is most likely a proof of that), they've proven they can run big projects, high-tech projects, etc. I'm in China right now; I look around and don't see people afraid of elevators or subways or the shitton of skyscrapers they're paving the ground with here. The big cities look just the same as big cities in every "developed" country - where exactly does this assumption of their incompetence come from? They're people just as we are, with engineering schools just like the ones we have.

[noir_lord]

> Also, consider that this "less developed country" builds nuclear reactors, has a space program, and runs better metro lines than most of Europe. They somehow manage not to screw all of this up more than anyone else.

Not that I'm saying this is not true but you have to consider the sheer control of the media in China, would we hear about the screw-ups, you can cover just about anything up with that level of control.

[TeMPOraL]

They might not hear about them locally, but we probably would - China's control of media seems to be aimed more inward. I think we generally know about all of their big screwups in civilian sector.

Anyway, Western companies tend to also cover up as much as they can, and China is not North Korea. And they do have safety protocols.

[barkingcat]

Since China produces most of the electronics used in the US, you would be able to tell just how good a Chinese product can be even if the Chinese media is censored.

Think your Macbook Air is the best laptop you've ever used? That's made in China.

[theklub]

Who China? They screw up all the time...

[TeMPOraL]

So does everyone else.