[lukeschlather]

One thing that has done a lot for me is I've been doing more brushing without toothpaste. I do use toothpaste, but when I do it I treat it more as a fluoride treatment than as a tool to get off plaque. When I'm trying to get off plaque I use a dry brush.

[Scoundreller]

Toothpaste is more than fluoride, it contains surfactants and mild abrasives to aid in the cleaning process.

[saidajigumi]

As my post above indicates, this effect is really important. The plaque biofilm is really sticky. I'm not sure what's going on in GP's case, but when using a plaque staining dye to see what's going on, it's clear that toothpaste makes a huge difference in the ability to mechanically disrupt plaque. It's amazingly hard to do without toothpaste.

[dualogy]

Abrasives on enamel! Yay..

[Scoundreller]

It's all about differences in hardness.

If everything goes as planned: The abrasive is more likely to scratch what's on the teeth; and the teeth are more likely to scratch the toothpaste if everything goes as planned.

[yogipatel]

I'm not sure I understand, are you basically brushing twice? Once w/o toothpaste and once with?

[cobweb]

That's what I do. Once to get rid of food debris. Then start with toothpaste. Then floss, rinse, and a quick brush again with toothpaste. But sadly too little too late with my teeth. They are screwed.

I rarely ate sweets as a child and avoid sugar. I rarely eat processed foods. Drink is another matter. I most likely have harmed my teeth from drinking beer/wine/smoothies and from being too rough when cleaning. I really miss my younger healthy teeth.

My teeth have felt horrible ever since they failed and were drilled and filled. And now bring me a lot of misery. Look after your teeth! Healthy teeth are incredibly attractive. IMHO.