[maxwell]

> Western Europe had lots of problems, but countries that operate in the European tradition are better places to live.

But what suggests "places that operate in the European tradition" will remain better (i.e. what traits of Euro civilization are optimal given any group of humans)? What makes this expression any more meaningful than something like, "C had lots of problems, but languages in the C-family are better to work with"?

[_h4xr]

If the smartest non-C programmers all started programming in C, and the C programmers never switched to something else, you could make that judgment.

What's interesting is that I almost never find out, halfway through an argument like this, that I'm talking to someone who moved to a place unspoiled by Western imperialism. Mongolia, for example.