[lmm]

> A language without higher-kinded types or type-classes cannot be the language that "Scala should be". And these aren't things that can be easily added later. In other words I don't think it will ever happen.

I mentioned higher-kinded types; last I knew they were an experimental feature. I thought Ceylon offered some way to do "open interfaces" (the vital part of typeclasses IMO)? If not then that's definitely an issue.

> And what can you do in Ceylon about this? Or our we talking about a dream?

In Ceylon you have arity abstraction over tuples built in, so you can do HList-style operations by default. Scala will supposedly add this in Don Giovanni but in the meantime you have to use Shapeless with its implicit macros and it's slightly less nice (e.g. the error messages are less clear).

>Scala.js is reusing the Scala compiler in what happens to be the cleanest transition I've seen. Care to explain?

I think it's fair to call Scala.js "retrofitted", and I think the article is right that a language that was designed from the ground up to be JVM-independent will inevitably be better at it.

My whole point was that these are minor rough edges to Scala that aren't really that important, so I'm not sure why you're being so defensive.

[bad_user]

Sorry, I sound defensive only because I'm in a bad mood, nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Thanks for the clarifications.