[tga_d]

This is just the same old issue of DRM as before: create a system that works when the user is running it like they're supposed to, but doesn't reveal anything when they're not. And it's never worked. Probably can never work. Cory Doctorow talks about it in his talks on eliminating DRM. Basically, at the end of the day, the only real means we have of making DRM "work" is using laws (which, of course, doesn't stop criminals, only people who are trying to do things legally).

[redbeard0x0a]

> doesn't stop criminals

Or it allows criminals to hide behind the DRM and laws to prevent a 3rd party from discovering their crimes (ala VW).

[tptacek]

It worked pretty well for DirecTV, which is a more analogous scenario than normal computer software.

[tga_d]

>It worked pretty well for DirecTV

You're going to have to explain what you mean by that, is there some story of DirecTV successfully preventing people from analyzing firmware?

[tptacek]

Yes, famously. Google "DirecTV black sunday". DirecTV successfully killed off the (huge) DirecTV piracy community, not just by frying the old hacked cards, but by deploying new cards that have mostly withstood more than a decade of intense analysis.

[apaprocki]

Ahhh memories. What started as a "write a byte now put the card in any box for TV" escalated into complicated custom electronics, MITMing the stream, with a computer required to sit in the middle to lend its processing power. All the while, some unsung heroes out of the Matrix able to look in realtime at the DV-S stream flowing across their screen, able to spot a new Agent Smith barreling at the card and alert the world via IRC.