[exstudent2]

I'm commenting on this post because her accusations were brash and unfounded (based on her own statements) and I think bashing your current employer on Tumblr is unprofessional. I don't see how it relates to HN other than as a chance to talk about HR issues.

I actually think the company in question handled this really well. It will be interesting to see what they do next though, I would honestly have troubles with this person if I had to go back to work with them after this.

> men readily speak up to disagree with us, rarely speak up to agree, validate, genuinely encourage, etc.

There are men in this very thread stressing the importance of speaking up for women regardless of facts in all public conversation as a political action.

Aside from that, no one should expect anyone else to go to bat for them (and they should expect to get called out on their mistakes). It's the way the world works for men and women.

[Mz]

I see a lot wrong with what you are saying. But I don't see a lot of value in arguing it. If I argue with men here about sexism, I get told that I am "combative" and therefore I am at fault for whatever problems I feel exist (that I experience firsthand). I have flagged this piece. I dislike this entire conversation. And when I submit things that do propose other points of view and are trying to find real solutions, they mostly get ignored.

This is what I submitted today (yes, I wrote it -- not really relevant to why I am aggravated): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10453412

It has one upvote and no comments. Meanwhile, plenty of people are happy to piss and moan about how this woman is Doing It Wrong, upvote this and fill it up with ugly comments.

I would like to see a great deal more focus on how to solve this. This is not it.

Having flagged this piece, I plan to move on. I think this does not help anyone.

[exstudent2]

I see a lot wrong with what you're saying too :)

I do agree with some of your points though. Focusing on (and talking to) women who are succeeding in tech would be much more productive than hostile, aggressive or "ironic" feminism. That would include this piece. I don't know how an author can talk about rapey bros then complain that someone uses the word "chicks". If anything her ad hominem is much worse.

I liked this from your post:

> We go looking for an obstacle to break through and fail to find it. We show up equipped with tools to destroy a barricade only to find there is no barricade and the people we are facing feel threatened by and unwelcoming of us because we are weirdly armed to the teeth for a battle that should not happen, and if it does happen, it harms the cause of women rather than helping women.

I would argue that this is what lukev is doing in this thread and like you say, it's not winning any converts.

I think the only thing I really disagree with in your stance is that you greatly over estimate the support system available to men. There's a reason women now outnumber men in higher education. While the stories of master/apprentice, captain/crew are nice, the reality is most men are extremely isolated and left to fend for themselves. Just like women.

[Mz]

the reality is most men are extremely isolated and left to fend for themselves. Just like women.

I think there are important differences. I think I just have a lot more work to do to adequately convey them.

I notice it (my piece) still doesn't have more upvotes. So presumably you did not upvote it. Nor did you comment there. You commented on it here. I will suggest that keeps the focus on a piece you think is doing it wrong and does nothing to redirect focus to a piece that is at least trying to look for real answers.

Anyway, I have work to do.

Thank you for the comment. Take care.

[exstudent2]

I thought about upvoting it since I really appreciate your honest discussion. In the end I don't agree with it enough though.

I commented here because I strongly disagree that this type of public blasting of hr issues is appropriate.

Your piece is definitely sensible and well written even if I don't agree with it.

[Mz]

You don't have to "agree" with it to upvote it. You can upvote it to bookmark it. Items you upvote are items you can revisit. You can upvote it to say "Yes, I would like to see more of this on HN." You can upvote it in hopes of helping it get to the front page and get real discussion, instead of people continuing to discuss stuff like this all the time.

You aren't obligated to upvote it. But upvote does not denote agreement per se.

/pedantic

[tzs]

> You can upvote it to bookmark it

...

> You can upvote it to say "Yes, I would like to see more of this on HN."

I'd do a lot more of the latter if not for the former. Because HN uses the same mechanism for both I tend to avoid up-voting stories unless they are stories I want to bookmark for later reference. If they are just interesting but not something I think I'll need to refer to later I avoid up-voting so as to not clutter up my bookmarks.

I wish HN separated up-voting from bookmarking, like Reddit does.