[chimeracoder]

> What is Go well suited for other than network programming? Why might one decide to write the backend API of their web app in Go, compared to say Grails, Python etc.

You'll get a lot of different opinions on this. I'll just speak based on my experience, since Python was my primary language before coming to Go.

Everything I used to use Python for, I can do faster in Go. The notable exception to this is statistical analysis, as Go does not have any FORTRAN bindings[0], whereas Python does (through Numpy & co.). I still use a combination of Python, R, and other languages for this.

I came to Go for the static typing and native concurrency[1], but I stayed because I'm more productive in it. Python and Go are about equally fun to write, but because I can build things much faster in Go, it ends up feeling more rewarding overall, given that my time is limited.

If you don't really have a pressing need for anything else, you can stick with Python. But I found Python to be slow to develop in and cumbersome, and after trying Go out, I realized I was 100x more productive in it.

[0] apparently this may no longer be true; if so, that's exciting news!

[1] this was also before Python had built-in async. I still prefer Go's concurrency model and syntax, but at least Python has this as an option now.

[microtonal]

Everything I used to use Python for, I can do faster in Go. The notable exception to this is statistical analysis, as Go does not have any FORTRAN bindings, whereas Python does (through Numpy & co.).

golang does have BLAS bindings through gonum:

https://godoc.org/github.com/gonum/blas/cgo

Coming back to the main question. I use Go as my primary language these days. E.g., my dependency parser and neural net dependency parser (which uses the aforementioned BLAS binding) are written in Go:

https://github.com/danieldk/dpar https://github.com/danieldk/dparnn

What I like about Go: it's C-like without the unsafety of C nor the complexity of C++. Moreover, I've found that working in Go is generally as productive as Python (short compile times, good tooling, completion in vim, lightweight package system), while being much faster and better-fit for large projects.

What I dislike about Go: it's a cliché, but the lack of parametric polymorphism is jarring.

[howeman]

gonum also has LAPACK bindings

godoc.org/github.com/gonum/lapack/cgo

Assuming you need float64, BLAS and LAPACK are most easily accessed through the wrapper packages godoc.org/github.com/gonum/blas/blas64 and godoc.org/github.com/gonum/lapack/lapack64. This way code can be written to either use the native go implementations or the assembly/c/fortran ones.

[bdamm]

100x? Even 10x is very significant. Why is it that you feel so much more productive in Go? Is it ease of refactoring? Lack of frustrating bindings bugs? Something else?

[chimeracoder]

Yeah, I know 100x is a huge multiplier, but I've actually tracked myself to the extent possible, and that really is the right order of magnitude for me.

There are a number of reasons. I find refactoring is way, way simpler. Refactoring in Python feels painful enough that I always put it off until it gets absolutely necessary. With Go, I find it takes way less time, and also less mental energy.

The static typing and strict compiler (enforcement of imports and lvalues, etc.) works well for my writing style. I write what's in my head, without worrying about the small details (only the high level logic), and I can be confident that it'll be easy to fix the small details (syntax, typos) afterwards.

It's kind of like how writers often work - they dump words on a page, focusing on getting the main points across, and it's the editor's job to make sure they fix the grammar and style. I end up having a conversation with the compiler and when it stops telling me anything, the code usually does what I want it to.

YMMV.

[agentgt]

I agree that static typing at least for me gives massive reduction in time in medium to large projects. And despite what many think about Java I am able to be a multiplier faster than Python with it (I would say as much as 4x at times).

What I don't understand is all these people claiming that the language is slowing them down by massive factors. I guess I'm either incredibly stupid or people on HN are incredibly smart (probably both) but I just can't even think fast enough for the syntax of the modern languages to really slow me down (ignoring copy n' paste exceptions and build time issues). For example to create the mental model of a dumb video game I'm making is taking more time than the actual coding.

In fact I would say if anything slows me down its bugs and/or features missing in immature open source libraries, crappy tooling, and lack of documentation and most importantly not fully understanding the problem (or what to create in terms of video game). And I can say this definitively about Rust... the language is awesome but I'm slow as crap in the language because of random stuff breaking and lack of good libraries.

I'm not saying Go has the above issues (on the contrary it now is rather mature) but I have hard time believing the 100x (and that is my opinion :) ) of going from problem to fully coded solution.

[seiji]

The static typing and strict compiler (enforcement of imports and lvalues, etc.) works well for my writing style.

It seems you more enjoy just "Not Python" than Go itself.

Go is still pretty awful and designed without really consulting what would help users. It's just designed for what the creators want, but now millions of people are trying to use it—not just 8 people inside the Nation of Google. It's getting worse for the average developer as time goes on. But, one thing developers love doing is understanding broken things, so in a away, the more difficult a system, the more nerds like it because it gives them accomplishment and the ability to exclude non-understanders. (Plus, Tabs? Tabs? In 2015? Is the Go development process run by monkeys living in Antarctica?)

Good review: http://www.evanmiller.org/four-days-of-go.html

[chimeracoder]

> It seems you more enjoy just "Not Python" than Go itself.

No, I have experience with lots of languages. I'm comparing to Python here because that's what OP asked for.

I don't think Go is "just designed for what the creators want", but even if it were, I don't care, because that's what I want as well.

I'm talking about my personal experience of Go based on my own experience writing Go full-time for over three years, which is as long as the language has had a stable release. With all due respect, it's highly unlikely that a review from someone using it for four days is somehow going to change how productive I've already found the language makes me.

[seiji]

With all due respect, it's highly unlikely that a review from someone using it for four days

But, the review goes into a rant about how the Go community just thinks it's the greatest and refuses to listen to outside opinions due to a sense of inbred and ungrounded superiority... kinda like what you just did there.

[chimeracoder]

> the Go community just thinks it's the greatest and refuses to listen to outside opinions due to a sense of inbred and ungrounded superiority... kinda like what you just did there.

It's not 'inbred superiority' to think that my own experience is a better predictor of what works for me than what someone else thinks. I never said "Go is the greatest". I said that, based on my experience with a wide range of languages, Go is the best for me. OP asked "why might someone decide to use Go", and I answered by explaining why I decided to use Go.

From your comments throughout this thread, it seems that you really dislike Go. That's fine, don't use it. But why try and pick fights with those of us who do use it?

[waspleg]

Thanks for the link. I'm not a professional programmer but I laughed out loud at The Autistic Gopher Hypothesis.

[Artemis2]

A very significant reason why I love Go is that it fits in my head. I can use all the keywords, constructs, all the builtin functions effortlessly, while the standard library is a breeze to work with.

[seiji]

Most talented people can write 200 "productive" lines of code per day (not copy/paste java boilerplate).

So, 100x would mean you are now writing 20,000 lines of code per day.

[stonogo]

This is a painfully incorrect method of determining programmer productivity.

[hsitz]

If you don't like LOC, then what sort of interpretation are you giving to "100x more productive"? I'm not so sure LOC is way off.

But in any case, if a person says he is "100x more productive" in one language than another, then I expect he can complete in 1 to 7 days what would take 100 to 700 days (i.e., 3 months to 2 years) in the other language.

Strange that I have to even highlight the obvious, but anyone who says they're 100x more productive in Go than Python is exaggerating to an extent that I find it hard to trust anything they say.

[stonogo]

Again, "lines of code" is a shitty metric. Functionality might be one, customer support might be another... but even if you choose LOC, 100x is not impossible or even unlikely. When learning Go, I went back to undergraduate coursework, and picked some example problems from an advanced programming class. I solved these problems with Go.

Seventeen years ago, I dropped that class, because it was taught in Java. According to pure LOC, I'm something like 10,000,000 times more productive in Go than in Java, because Java was so gross I chose to withdraw from the course rather than waste my time rolling in mud.

Perhaps, setting LOC aside, a given programming languages matches a developer's thought habits better. In such circumstances, not only does she finish the nominal task quicker, she is able to respond more quickly to QA feedback, or to changing requirements, or to other business considerations. Perhaps a different paradigm enables her to foresee shortcomings in an existing design. These things not only improve one developer's productivity; they make the entire team more productive.

There is so much more to programming than "how many lines of text did you shit out today" and it is incredibly naive to behave as though LOC is the prime metric. We, as an industry, have been aware of this for at least forty years now. It's time to stop.

[seiji]

It's difficult to write a program without writing lines of code.

There are dumb measure, smart measures, and dumb ways of applying smart measures. We could consider a little intellectual generosity, that intentions were well-met, and not that a 50 year old used car salesperson turned programing manager was irrationally demanding X lines of code per day.

[mseepgood]

"One of my most productive days was throwing away 1000 lines of code." — Ken Thompson, Go designer

[copsarebastards]

> I came to Go for the static typing

Well, you came to the wrong place...