[ThomPete]

I am not actually sure why people have so much against the Samwer brothers.

Have they done anything particularly despicable?

I know their model is to copy any potential idea coming out of the US which I don't understand the issue with.

One thing they really did well was to have a structure that makes it easy for them to localize any company.

I hear the work environment is hard but so is it many other places.

Or maybe I am missing your joke?

[gozo]

I think they are implicitly challenging peoples ideas how startup works. Both for people who are "waiting for the right moment" to start a startup and people already running a startup and feel they have an advantage.

While I'm not a big personal fan of them I think competition is good. US startups need to step up their game and not coast until getting acquired.

[on_]

I have nothing against them, they are an organization founded by smart MBAs with a strong focus on software and finance. Some of their media companies are a bit derivative, but what would you expect from a finance company. The organization is run by detail oriented, anal-retentive founders who know how to edit a team. Sometimes though, I think they get a bit lost in repackaging other peoples content, and in their haste, miss a few titular details.

[seiji]

copy any potential idea coming out of the US which I don't understand the issue with.

Except, they don't just copy the idea, they copy the entire products and companies wholesale (interface, API, UI, user interaction model). How is that not bad?

[peterjancelis]

I love how everybody in Silicon Valley claims ideas don't matter, only execution does, then hate on the company that is taking that maxim to its ultimate conclusion.

[ThomPete]

Exactly!

[lmm]

As a European they're adding a lot of value for me, by making useful products available for me.

Don't like your products being copied? Stop making them US-only. I would use the "real thing" if I could.

[stock_toaster]

With the recent "death" of safe harbor in Europe, I can only assume it will become more pervasive, as it gets harder for silicon valley startups to do business internationally (at least until they are large enough to afford multi-presence).

[pavlov]

There are plenty of legal protections for corporate IP: patents, copyrights, trade secrets... If an aspect of a business can't be protected, competitors are free to copy it.

Consider a small coffee shop. Are they allowed to write the customer's name on the cup? That's clearly not an original idea, they copied it from a bigger competitor. Should it be forbidden?

[gnaritas]

How is it bad? Business doesn't have to be original.

[ThomPete]

So when italian restaurants copy each other it's bad?

Not sure I understand the issue.

[wpietri]

Personally, I despise them because they're parasites. I'm also not a big fan of, say, tapeworms. Sure, I don't doubt that tapeworms are also miracles of evolution. And sure, I guess even tapeworms have to eat. But at the end of the day, they're still parasites, and I still think they're repulsive. Ugh.

[lmm]

All businesses take things from those that have come before. These guys make money because they're providing a valuable service.

[wpietri]

The problem isn't that they borrow ideas from others; it's that they do it in such volume and with such little creativity of their own. Zynga faced similar criticism:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/08/08/a-photo-re...

Both companies do of course make money. But that doesn't entitle them to respect, just money.

[on_]

They really drive home a few points often overlooked:

Business fundamentals are really important, while not the only thing, that are a critical aspect of longevity.

Ideas are less important than execution.

Porter's 5 forces model provides some basic criteria for evaluating competition. If you provide something easy to copy and the barriers to entry are low, it could be a good idea but not a great business. In one of Sam Altman's lectures the "when to expand internationally" question is brought up. I don't want to misqoute it, so I won't. The context might have been the Samwer bros, but he gives some good insight.

[ThomPete]

So ideas do matter after all? Not just execution?

Again an italian restaurant opening up on the blog right next to another isn't going to complain that someone steals their idea even though they sell more or less the same products.

Furthermore Rocket Internet takes ideas that haven't yet come to Europe. People do that all the time just very few have been so successful as the Samwer Brothers.

[wpietri]

The "ideas don't matter" bit is to help people understand that having one idea that feels smart does not guarantee them success. It is not some eternal, fundamental truth.

Opening up an Italian restaurant right next to another doesn't matter because it's the eight zillionth Italian restaurant in the world and the concept was jointly created over centuries by the nation of Italy and many entrepreneurs.

Moreover, even when similar restaurants open in the same area, they typically work hard to distinguish themselves. If somebody opens up a restaurant and copies the exact menu, layout, decor, trade dress, pricing structure, and dish names, that still looks shitty.

I agree that the Samwer brothers are unusually successful copycats. But as with other parasites, I don't think that makes them better; I think it makes them worse. I can forgive it when it's some desperate, low-rent operation, like somebody selling cheap DVD copies on the streetcorner. But these guys clearly can afford to innovate; they're just happy exploiting the work of others.