[_pius]

OK someone has to call bullshit on this. I started as a lowly software engineer straight out of school at the same time. I started at 70K ...

Joel started Fog Creek in 2000, but began programming professionally much earlier than that.

[chetanahuja]

That sentence construction certainly implied otherwise. Even disregarding the part about starting salaries, the implication that programmers were treated as "typists" circa year 2000 is preposterous. This is around the height of the first dot.com boom and tales of extravagant programmer salaries was already legend. Starting his argument with such a patently absurd claim just discredits everything else he says later on.

[devhead]

it is over 100 degrees outside, the world is round.

so does that mean if you don't agree with me that it's hot out where i live at this point in time and space that you don't agree that the world is round?

opportunity is different for different people in different places at different times. No need to be so flippant because he relayed his experience with you.

starting salary of 70k is pretty darn lucky without experience, many developers started out much lower than that and they still do. The point is the corporate attitude towards developers has changed greatly since 2000; from my view point i agree completely.

try starting out making 18k a year and then come post how much you feel valued.