[SomeCallMeTim]

> (daily crashes in USA)

I'm sorry, but a quick Google finds less than a dozen in the US this year. I couldn't find a definitive list, but searching "small plane crash 2015" found mostly the same events.

A puddle-jumper being flown by a certified commercial pilot shouldn't be a whole lot more dangerous than a commercial flight.

But yes, a small aircraft flown by someone who just got their license? You're taking your life into your hands, especially if there's a chance of poor weather.

[Tuxer]

Pilot here, I can assure you that a "puddle jumper" being flown by a certified commercial pilot is way more dangerous than a commercial flight. The certification necessary for an airliner is miles above (no pun intended) the certification for a GA (general aviation aircraft).

An airliner's resistance to weather, its ability to out-climb (it's pressurized) turbulence and ice, its ability to still fly with half of its engines destroyed, is something that doesn't exist in general aviation aircraft. An airliner can only be flown with 2 crew members, pilot and copilot, so that one being incapacitated doesn't end the flight right there. Such measures don't exist in general aviation.

Even airports are different. Big airports have control towers and radars to avoid midair collisions, excellent weather reports. The places I go to sometimes don't have either, I have to overfly the runway at 500 feet to look at the windsock and make an informed guess.

[mikeyouse]

The NTSB maintains a database of all airline accidents that are recorded every year.. I did a basic search with the following parameters:

USA, 2014, Airplanes only, Fatal accidents only -- This returned 147 results of fatal accidents, the majority of which were Pipers / Cessnas / Beechcraft..

Expanding the list to include non-fatal accidents returns 310 results.. So not quite 1 per day, but still a lot of plane crashes.

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/index.aspx

[japhyr]

Is that 147 accidents with at least 1 fatality, or 147 fatalities?

I did a quick search, but there's more information there than I could sort through quickly.

[mikeyouse]

The former, 147 with at least 1 fatality.

[SomeCallMeTim]

OK, point taken.

[nether]

Small planes crashes are common enough that they don't often make it beyond local news. The NTSB recorded 1,471 accidents and 440 fatalities in general aviation for the year 2012: http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/data/Pages/2012%20Aviatio.... That's like one 747 going down each year.

[gcb0]

to take that commercial license you have to fly hundreds of hours. with and without instructors.

guess how much those hours cost.

i lost count of how many times I've flown just for the hell of it with friends getting those hours for a few hundred bucks.

[lifeisstillgood]

I think the point is ... With friends. Who almost always return to the same airfield as you both took off from.

But this is a fascinatingly grey area. If you were to fly from airfield A to B and back, taking a different passenger each time, how would you characterise the transaction?

I can see taking my kids up in an airplane of a friend of a friend, and handing over a hundred or whatever for fuel. But "some guy". Hard to imagine.

[patch_cable]

For a private pilot, unless the passengers share a common purpose for travel with the pilot, money isn't allowed to change hands, even if it is just "for fuel".

You would need at least a commercial pilot license for this type of transaction. (A CPL is a lesser license than an airline transport pilot license, which is what you need to work for an airline. The former only requires 100 hours of time.)

[peckrob]

It's even more complicated and crazy than that.

* If I fly my friends with me to the beach for the weekend, they can chip in and cover their share of expenses. Legal for me to do as a PPL under FAR 61.113(c).

* If I fly myself to a conference for work, my employer can reimburse me for my expenses. Legal for me to do as a PPL under FAR 61.113(b)(1).

BUT.

* If I take a coworker with me to the conference, I can't be reimbursed as a PPL. I must either fund it out of my own pocket or must have a CPL under FAR 61.113(b)(2) as held by the Mangiamele opinion (which I can't find the original PDF of right now, unfortunately).

> You would need at least a commercial pilot license for this type of transaction.

And a class 2 medical certificate, which may be difficult to get.

[lifeisstillgood]

Common purpose of travel seems a good phrase - but surely your Collegue and you have common purpose - or is that common, non commercial, purpose?

[peckrob]

> common, non commercial, purpose?

This is, IIRC, what the Mangiamele opinion held. If our common purpose is business, even if it's non-aviation business, the second person is considered a paid passenger when the pilot is reimbursed.

I get what the FAA is trying to do - they're trying to keep PPLs from running charters, air taxis, under-the-radar airlines, etc. But some of the 61.113 rules and opinions are just silly, and that section really needs a complete rewrite.

I don't need a CDL to drive my coworker with me to the conference, even if I am reimbursed by my employer. I shouldn't need a CPL to make that same trip in an airplane.