[simi_]

Edit: Thank you for the several downvotes.

I initially wrote a stupid rant based on this [0] about how VW's ex-CEO doesn't speak English, but a quick Youtube search proved that was wrong [1]. Oops!

I'll just leave some quick facts that I dug up in the process:

* VW just had another scandal that made it to HN recently, regarding hiding security vulnerabilities [2]

* VW Group numbers for 2014: €204B of which €12.7B revenue, 583k employees [3]

* the board made some weird-ass declarations about the ex-CEO [4]

My confidence in VW is shaken to the point that I'll never buy another car from them again (I didn't like how they artificially segment the market by owning Audi/VW/Skoda/etc anyway), but how do other German manufacturers compare? [5]

0: http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/17/9347275/auto-industry-meet...

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEPJluU09RU

2: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-14/vw-has-spe...

3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group

4: http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/23/9383835/volkswagen-board-s...

5: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-may-not-only-car-18...

[mason55]

> I didn't like how they artificially segment the market by owning Audi/VW/Skoda/etc anyway

How is this different from Honda/Acura, GM/Cadillac, or Toyota/Lexus?

[joezydeco]

Not just GM/Cadillac, but GM/Chevrolet/Buick/GMC/Opel/Vauxhall/Holden/Cadillac

[function_seven]

I miss the old days:

GM/Chevrolet/Buick/GMC/Opel/Vauxhall/Holden/Cadillac/Oldsmobile/Pontiac/Hummer/Saturn/Saab

[joezydeco]

What, no love for Geo? =)

[function_seven]

I knew I missed something!

Ok, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors#Discontinued_br...

[ams6110]

Those were actually Toyotas.

[joezydeco]

More than Toyotas...

"Geo models were manufactured by GM in joint ventures with three Japanese automakers. The Prizm was produced at the GM/Toyota joint-venture NUMMI assembly plant in Fremont, California, and the Metro and Tracker were produced at the GM/Suzuki joint-venture CAMI assembly plant in Ingersoll, Ontario. The exceptions, the Spectrum and Storm, were entirely manufactured by Isuzu in Japan. Geo Metro convertibles and early Geo Trackers were built by Suzuki in Japan."

Postscript: The NUMMI plant is now owned by Tesla.

[simi_]

Definitely not something unique to them, I just don't like that practice - also, you usually have the regular car brand and the upper-market version, e.g. Lexus/Toyota, not N degrees of "luxury" e.g. Audi/VW/Seat&Skoda. I like what BMW are doing, they have 3 branches based on different applications/philosophies.

[fein]

On point #2, this was not only VW. That list even included Ferrari.

On point #4, this is pretty normal for any large company playing damage control. GM did the exact same song and dance in 2014.

I don't think I've lost any confidence in VW, but we may be looking at different types of cars. I like driving machines that may not be practical, but a hell of an experience to drive. The GTI's have done a great job of this, and I'll probably buy a new one soon. Currently a 2005 MKIV GTI 1.8t.

Given that VW tried to cheat emissions to improve performance and mileage, it's exactly something that a person like me actually wants (not the cheating the system, but the driver benefits).

[xgbi]

> Given that VW tried to cheat emissions to improve performance and mileage, it's exactly something that a person like me actually wants (not the cheating the system, but the driver benefits).

No. They cheated to pass the exam on the cheap, instead of investing in the required R&D to create a motor that gives out the same amount of power while reducing emissions.

Given that they already had their engine for the EU, they didn't want to research a new one that conforms to the more drastic emissions of USA for Diesel. That's just a shitty workaround that was there for too long. That it has been in there since 2008 just shows how careless they were.

I'm wondering what the investigation in the chain of decision will unveil. You can't hide this for so long without some pretty intense omerta everywhere.

[rlonstein]

> No. They cheated to pass the exam on the cheap, instead of investing in the required R&D to create a motor that gives out the same amount of power while reducing emissions.

I'm not going to apologize for them but I can concoct how it happened... I think it all stems from the termination of the licensing deal on Daimler's BlueTec system/standard. Until 2007 VW used the BlueTec system but probably didn't want to continue paying license fees, track a moving target under a competitor's control, and support a competitor's branding alongside their own TDI branding. Continuing my guesswork, they expected their engineers could work out a replacement system but it proved harder than thought when tested in actual driving conditions. Speculating even more, someone noticed that under certain conditions the TDI engines performed up to the standard so they programmed the ECU to do that. But other performance metrics and reliability sucked. It was going to take time to work it out but the model year doesn't wait. Wild-assed guessing and getting into intent, someone down low in the hierarchy realized you could detect an emissions test (OBD2 port in use, wheel sensors differ, speed and rpm and timing, etc.) and trigger the clean mode. Unless someone stuck a sensor up the tailpipe while the vehicle was actually moving, no one would know and there would be enough time to work out the actual emissions problems. Except the vehicles were selling and maybe someone a little higher up decided not to fix it at all.

[rcthompson]

I wonder if we're going to see other car companies try to quietly issue software updates to existing vehicles to cover up their own emissions-test-defeating code.