[Frondo]

Yeah, you're probably right, but I'd go so far as to place all empathy as coming from a place of superiority. Some poor guy can feel sorry for a rich dude because the poor guy knows his friends really like him and aren't just out for his money. The childless couple can feel sorry for how the couple with children has no free time, and the couple with kids can feel sorry for how the childless couple doesn't experience the joy of having a family, and so on, and so on.

That said, I sure feel sorry for someone with no friends, romantic partners, or human engagement on anything outside their work. It may be rewarding, but it doesn't sound very fun.

AND, if it's fun for them, then great! Different strokes and all. I hope they're as satisfied at the end of their days as I suspect I will be, looking back on life.

[Retra]

> I sure feel sorry for someone with no friends, romantic partners, or human engagement on anything outside their work.

That would actually describe most of my life, including the parts where I wasn't being paid to work. However, the reason I didn't have those things is because, outside of work, all I think about is work. I don't want friends who don't want to talk about work, because it is the most important thing in my life. I don't want a romantic partner who doesn't want to work with me because my work is the top priority. I don't want human engagement outside of work because it is time I could put into my work.

The bottom line is this: the best way for me to make the world a better, more enjoyable place for both myself and for others is for me to be successful at my work. Anything that detracts from that becomes stressful and frustrating to deal with, and ultimately feels pointless.

[Frondo]

That's great!

How do you actually know you're making the world a better place for others, when all you talk about and think about is work?

See, what gets me about that attitude is, that kind of closed-off attitude is what I took into my first few startups. It's a tunnel-vision kinda thing, where I was pushing my ideas out into the world, but not engaging as a person with people (who, I assure you, are not all so focused on work). It never worked well, because people all want a lot of different things, and rarely does that all just line up with what I want.

But talking to people about their interests, listening and engaging with them on the human level? There's gold there, both in the friendships and the business that comes out of it.

[Retra]

The word 'work' just has connotations that it needn't have. For instance, I would consider "raising children" and "nurturing relationships" to be work, and I think if people are going to do them at all, then they should have an obligation to do them well, and they should be paid for their efforts.

>How do you actually know you're making the world a better place for others, when all you talk about and think about is work?

Because the work I do is general enough that it doesn't apply specifically to me or my culture. If I were to summarize, I would say my work is "to ensure by any means that the best possible decisions are made by as many people as possible in every situation in which I'm involved." Right now, there's a major technological aspect to that, since the capability of machines to advance human decision-making and communication is ripe for some real improvement. (Specifically in machine ethics.) These are things I will work on regardless of whether or not I am employed to do them. I only try to communicate it clearly enough and be successful enough at it that I can survive to do it with minimal obstruction.

So even though people want a lot of different things, they all want to be more capable at getting them, and that's what I am driving toward.

[CamperBob2]

How do you actually know you're making the world a better place for others, when all you talk about and think about is work?

How do you know s/he's not?

And who asked you? These attitudes toward work-life balance are something we must decide for ourselves, and then live with.

[Frondo]

Who asked me? This is a web forum, the whole point is to say stuff, respond to stuff, and so on.

As for whether the original poster is or isn't making the world a better place for others, you're right, I don't know. After how they described their work in the sibling post to yours (something about making decision-making better), I'm still not sure how what they're doing is any good.

As for why I'm skeptical that they're getting it right (i.e. solving a problem people have) without going out and talking to people about it, my experience tells me that that's pretty tough to get right.

Customer feedback is gold, and putting on your "I only talk about work" blinders is a good way to get something done, but whether it's the right thing, well, how do you know?

Look, I get it, it's fun to geek out and try and "solve problems" and treat life as an engineering exercise, but if you want to do it right, don't just sit at home and think "this is the problem," meet people where they are, and see how your vision and ideas fit with that, and on and on and on.

[Retra]

How does anyone know they're getting something right? Going out and talking to people is largely not the way to do it. Most people don't know anything about how to solve important problems.

You think you can cure cancer by going around making friends with people? Or discover a new algorithm? Or understand how to structure an organization?

I mean, if you just want to make money and be popular, then fine. Go talk to everybody. But if you want to solve an actual problem, that isn't going to help you find a solution unless you're always talking about the problem.

Which is work. I'm 100% ok with talking to people about problems. It's just the other pointless stuff that I don't do. Like talk about music, sports, beer, tv, family, or sex.

[Frondo]

Yes, I do think you can cure cancer by going around making friends with people--especially smart people who are doing other interesting things. I don't think a single-mindedness about problem solving ever works as well as staying focused, but having a broader perspective.

As for not talking about music, sports, beer, tv, family, or sex, hey, if that works for you, that's great. When you spell out all the things you're missing out on (especially family and sex), I'm doubly glad we have different approaches to life.

[prostoalex]

> That said, I sure feel sorry for someone with no friends, romantic partners, or human engagement on anything outside their work.

All three of those things are really available throughout life and are not that hard to accumulate once one sets his/her mind to it. In fact, she'll probably have access to higher caliber of candidates who'd know her background and find her intellectually stimulating in those capacities.

Whereas the opportunity to move humanity forward in a major way, with a matching set of skills (and energy of a young person) is more of a once in a lifetime opportunity.