[ZenoArrow]

> "In the end only one's own gene-survival matters."

Really? Speaking personally, if I could make a large lasting contribution to improve society, but had to give up my own gene-survival to do it, then I would do it. People value different things, there isn't one be-all and end-all.

[aianus]

If our ancestors had thought like that the human race would not exist as we know it. It's very much the exception to the rule to value 'societal progress' over one's own family.

[ZenoArrow]

Not really. We'd still exist, even with the same attitude. Sometimes increasing the size of the population is beneficial to society, but it's a different situation in today's world.

I understand why the idea of bringing life into the world is appealing, but let's not pretend that's the main reason for living.

[ionised]

Agreed.

My own gene survival is of zero interest to me personally.

[WildUtah]

Your genes programmed you to believe that your "own gene survival is of zero interest to [you] personally." They did that because they found that exhibiting that belief was a good way to get themselves into the next generation.

Some substantial number of people who go around thinking that they aren't just acting as machines to propagate their genes find that their independence from gene control just happens to lead them to have a nice large family because their unselfish spirits love their spouses and children.

And the genes giggle triumphantly at your independence.

[daviross]

This seems like an unfalsifiable set of statements. Anything someone can say to the contrary just gets wrapped up in "But your genes programmed yourself that way".

Hint: There's not a whole lot "Gene survival urges" can do about 2 pellets of appropriately placed titanium and some surgical knives.

[ionised]

> Your genes programmed you to believe that your "own gene survival is of zero interest to [you] personally." They did that because they found that exhibiting that belief was a good way to get themselves into the next generation.

This is a compeltely meaningless statement, with no basis in fact. Genes do not consciously 'trick' you.

It's also a logically problematic. How would my developing to experience no paternal instinct actually lead me to have children? Short of me being irresponsible during sexual encounters (which I'm not) it won't happen.

> Some substantial number of people who go around thinking that they aren't just acting as machines to propagate their genes...

I never claimed otherwise and a I actually agree with that.

However the urge to have sex is very different from the urge desire to have children. You might want to look into that.

> ...find that their independence from gene control just happens to lead them to have a nice large family because their unselfish spirits love their spouses and children.

Again, no basis in fact.

This is very patronising and condescending as well. You're claiming to know my own mind better than I know it myself which is the asbsolute height of arrogance. You're also indicating people are selfish if they don't have children, which is competely contradicts what you said above about people just being machiens for genetic propagation.

I'm not even sure what to say to this other than you sound like a horribly shallow and judgemental person with a high degree of cognitive dissonance.

You might want to accept that fact that there are millions and millions of people across the globe that consciously decide to never have childre, for a variety of reasons. It may also come as a surprise to you that these people do not suddenly break down and end up with large families because their genes 'tricked' them into it.

[ZenoArrow]

Spot on.