[hermanmerman]

1. Gold had value 4000 years ago because it was rare enough that people could use it as a currency, not because it was a useful metal. Incidentally, it's not useful at all compared to steel, copper, aluminum, etc. hence its use in jewelry.

2. Gold has value today because some people are willing to buy it and some others are willing to sell it. I don't see how it couldn't be the same with Bitcoins (or anything for that matters). Can you explain to me why dollars have value? Euros? Drachmas?

3. You repeating that two successful investors said something at some point doesn't mean they are right, and you saying that they "agree with you" doesn't mean you are right. When trying to find the truth, blindly referring to authority is the last thing you should do.

[Ologn]

Of course gold has value due to its usefulness. Plenty of electrical equipment is gold-plated. Dentists fill teeth with gold. It has other industrial uses as well.

The value of precious metals are solely due to their usefulness, extending usefulness to their aesthetic, decorative quality as well. The price reflects this over the medium and long term. Of course, an ounce of silver in 1979 and 1981 was $8 an ounce, but for a variety of reasons it hit $40 an ounce for a few days in 1980. Short term price swings happen due to events, or major technological breakthroughs, but over time, price reflects value and utility.

> Can you explain to me why dollars have value? Euros? Drachmas?

Until 1971, dollars (and other currencies) were explicitly exchangeable for gold. Today they're implicitly backed by gold (or whatever commodity the US government can drum up).

Can you explain why the USA holds thousands of tons of gold in Fort Knox and other places? What is the purpose of the expenditures to hold all of that gold? There is only one answer - to put a floor under the value of the dollar.

Bitcoin does not have thousands of tons of gold propping up its market cap.

[kalleboo]

The industrial value of gold is far below its trade value.

And the value in jewelry is largely due to its perceived cost - otherwise any number of alloys that look the same would have just as astronomical cost. Just look at diamonds where nearly the whole retail value is based on de Beers marketing and industrial diamonds are in a different class.

[Ologn]

> The industrial value of gold is far below its trade value

Huh? Don't supply and demand meet at price? Isn't that mainstream economic theory?

If the price of gold went over its industrial value, or electrical coating value, or value as a tooth filling - then, as mainstream economic theory goes, demand falls as the price rises. The fact that wire manufacturers, dentists, industry etc. buy gold shows that it is trading at its proper value - when they want to use it.

Yes, the price of gold or any commodity can go above its real value for a short period of time, even for a few years. Eventually it always goes back to its utility price though.

> de Beers

I don't disagree that monopolies can fix prices for years, even decades. We can throw in Verizon/AT&T prices for mobile or land lines. Electrical companies. And so on. Yes, monopolies do throw off prices and values.

[bildung]

> > The industrial value of gold is far below its trade value

> Huh? Don't supply and demand meet at price? Isn't that mainstream economic theory?

Supply and demand have nothing to do with inherent value. You said it yourself: supply and demand meet at a price. I can personally value gold at $0, yet can resonably expect to sell it at a higher price tomorrow than I could buy it today.

Have a look at palladium. That metal has even higher industrial value than gold, and is rarer. Yet the market price per ounce is drastically lower than that of gold.