[saint_fiasco]

An anarchist explained to me that if they are forced to pay taxes and follow laws and all that, they should at least enjoy the advantages, even if they would prefer to forego those advantages if they were then free from taxes and laws.

Much like a significant minority of Free Software advocates (notably not Stallman) believe that the ideal is to have no IP at all, but that since we have them whether we want them or not, Free Software and Kopyleft are a valid defense mechanism.

[JoeAltmaier]

...and in that sense they act hypocritically. Its a fair cop.

The Anarchist claim is nonsense. They want no government, because it would be better. Yet when they get a free chance to act out that scenario (taking care of things on their own) still they call on the man. In what way would it hurt them to NOT call the cops after they've been mugged? They've already paid the taxes, so no marginal cost. It would let them enjoy the experience of their utopian society with no further cost to them.

I call that hypocrisy to the max.

[saint_fiasco]

I think there is a cost. Maybe in an anarchic society, they would pay for a security company, but they can't afford to pay for both public security (taxes for the police) and private security. Since they are forced to pay for the police anyway and can't afford both, it makes sense to use their services even if they believe they are inferior.

Or perhaps they are trained in the use of deadly firearms and believe they can protect themselves from crime using that but they live in a country that prohibits firearm use.

The point is, sometimes we can't act as if we already live in utopia. To reach utopia we have to get there from a place that exists in reality, not from a fantasy ideal world.

[mdpopescu]

Because if I shoot the mugger instead, I get arrested by the same police I've already been forced to paid for. Why is this so hard to understand?

[Edit: incidentally, I have called the cops three times in my life. The first two times I was told "it's not my problem". The third time they just hadn't showed up in 15 minutes, so I got bored and left.]

[JoeAltmaier]

Go right to shooting the guy, huh? Now I know something about how anarchists think.

How about we start with, do your own investigating, hire a private investigator, put up security cameras etc. You know, the things you'd be forced to do if Anarchy was actually in operation. Too much trouble? Exactly why we have civil societies.

[mdpopescu]

I'm sorry, I can't take you seriously after this. I get mugged and then I'm supposed to start an investigation?

[JoeAltmaier]

Yes. Unless I read Anarchy wrong, there's nobody to help you. Unless you are wealthy and can pay somebody.