[sid6376]

The agreement of accession was basically signed under duress by a Hindu ruler of a primarily Muslim state in 1947 when he was being attacked by Pakistani tribal lords. Our prime minister basically said - "Sign the agreement of accession or I am not protecting you". I don't think that agreement means anything. You might disagree but lets present facts as they were.

The story of Kashmir is full of broken promises by the Indian government and people. So before we call it an integral part of India, lets at least own our mistakes. Lets remove AFSPA in Kashmir. Lets hold the bloody referendum. Lets at least grant them more autonomy.

But thats not gonna happen. Any government which grants more autonomy to Kashmir will be voted out and hence they will not do it.

[_jgdh]

In my opinion, residents of J&K already get a number of privileges that other states don't. For example, laws passed by Parliament don't apply there until they're ratified by the State Assembly. Granting them additional autonomy and privileges isn't simple, because it doesn't square with the Constitution's tenet that all citizens are equal and deserve equal protection of laws. For example, Kashmiris can own property in the rest of India but other Indians can't own property in Kashmir.

You correctly call into question the agreement signed by the Maharaja of Kashmir, but I could just as easily ask about every other territory that's a part of the Union of India. Why should the writ of New Delhi run to places where the people are ethnically, linguistically and culturally different, such as Tamil Nadu? After all, at no point did Tamils accede to the Union and they have suffered discrimination before - such as when Delhi tried to impose Hindi on a Tamil-speaking population in 1965. Do Tamils deserve special privileges then? No, that's absurd.

To clarify, I think Article 370 that grants Kashmir special status should be scrapped, because they don't deserve special treatment. Apart from that, I think a referendum should be held there. I don't think it will bury the issue (look at Scotland), but it will mollify most people who live there for some time.

[eklavya]

Hyderabad, Goa were acceded under duress/pressure. So let's break India apart and make some people happy? Naga separatists want separate nation too, let's do that as well. Nations are not built this way. Each and every inch of India is an integral part of India. J&K is special because a certain politician had some fancies.

[arsalanb]

Man, you really need to read up on stuff. There is a difference between saying "No you don't get a separate nation" and saying "No you don't get a separate nation, and yea I'm just going to put 800,000 armed troops here to shoot you without being subject to jurisdiction if you ever ask. yes that includes innocent children and women"

Here is the thing, dude — 70% of all people from outside Kashmir don't know what is going on there. They immediately resolve to cursing Pakistan or Kashmiris, portraying their troops and their dirty politics as a favor they're doing to us. You know why that referendum was never held? Because the answer is clear — Go away, or at the very least stop shooting our people.

Sadly most of India will never understand, because they aren't listening. Impose AFSPA in Delhi and Mumbai and tell me how that goes.

Don't try to wildly justify everything your people do just to show your kinship to them. It makes you a fanatic, not a patriot. Most of my friends are from India. I love them, and have deep admiration for them. India is a great nation, but sadly it has been very unfair to Kashmir. And successfully made it appear as though they are trying to help, being portrayed as martyrs to their own people.

Research. That will fill in the knowledge gaps you have with regard to kashmir. Then think about it on the grounds of humanity. You will be one step closer to realizing that the situation is actually much different from what you hear about in the news or what your politicians tell you.

Love and respect from Kashmir.

[eklavya]

Sure I am out of touch of reality and I need to read up. I watched in horror as the 800000 troops coerced millions to vote for a sham government while killing innocent children who refused to vote. Meanwhile Pakistani army had been sending flowers from across the border which resulted in some people dying. Some people from Pakistan cross over from time to time to deliver those flowers personally defying the evil Indian army which also drowned Kashmiris in the recent floods.

Flowerpots are hurled at Indian Army by fringe elements which results in casualties of evil Indian Army persons. A new trend has been seen in the peace loving Kashmiris led by ISI agents in disguise, who chose not to participate in the elections and instead have been seen showing the most peaceful organisation ISIS's flag to the media and the evil army.

Ok enough with the sarcasm, a minister of the elected government (who belongs to Kashmir) recently appeared on a television program to complaint about the media. She said the media only shows the 4k separatists (ISIS lovers) in the news and not the 4000k people who voted and want tourism from the rest of the country. I am more likely to believe her than the propaganda spewed by a random commenter.

[arsalanb]

Little knowledge is very dangerous. I shall not feed fanatic trolls like you. Have a nice day!

[eklavya]

Playing the gentleman and branding me a troll doesn't make you right. Whatever I said above can be verified with some googling. If you actually had a point you would call out my lies.

[zsameem]

My friend hyderabad and Goa never saw an armed uprising like kashmmir did against India if you remember. You have little or no knowledge regarding the politics of India in general and Kashmir in particular. The politician that granted special status to J and K was your very own Mr. Nehru. One of the greatest Indian leaders. So when you say "Nations are not built that way", you are contradicting the person who probably contributed the most to building the Indian nation.

[eklavya]

I will wait till you realise the sarcasm in the last sentence I wrote. Please do enlighten me, which armed uprising you are talking about.

And no, Nehru did not contributed the most, the whole of India was united by Sardar Patel with the exception of J&K which Nehru insisted on taking up. If you call that contribution ...

[arsalanb]

Hehra, it's not that complicated — India has overstayed its welcome and people don't want them here. Because they kill people here.

[selimthegrim]

My grandfather left Hyderabad state in 1948 after watching Indian army massacre innocent people in retaliation for Razakar attacks.

[srean]

Everyone has left this thread so this comes late, but I wish the existence of Sundarlal's report and what it has to say is made more available and accessible.

Understanding does not come by hiding ugly thruths. In India its a common belief (among Hindus) that Hindus have never done anyone any wrong and were mind their own business peacefully an then all shit happened to them. False historical constructs are dangerous. Study of clear and open history backed by grassroots records is super important. If you, your dad is in Pakistan now, here's greetings from near his older home.

[selimthegrim]

Yes, he was from Gulbarga city, which figures prominently in the Sunderlal report.

[eklavya]

Someday I would like to understand how everything in India ultimately involves religion.

[srean]

Well it has been seared at the time of its modern birth.

Its importance varies by region though. Some parts haven't been touched by communal violence ever since partition (apart from Babri related ones) whereas others are repeat offenders.

[justincormack]

Nations change their borders, break up and reform all the time, and they agree to stay together all the time too. "Each and every inch of India is an integral part of India" is meaningless, countries are political constructs.

[selimthegrim]

That's right, keep on worshipping British colonial boundaries. Are you sure you're really independent?