[geofft]

You know, it was not that long ago that being a hacker was, itself, a political position: you had thoughts on the power structures of the world and its borders, about US arms-control laws and their relationship to strong cryptography, about whether computer code should be subject to copyright or patent protection, about the FBI and J. Edgar Hoover, about voting technology and algorithms, about computer crime laws, etc.

Then, slowly, the hackers became engineers. The hackers' way of thinking, in many ways, became society's way of thinking, and it was easy enough not to express contrary political opinions. At which point it became easy not to express any at all.

I am an engineer, and what's a "manifesto"? Damn kids, dragging politics into our professional industry... they're all alike.

http://phrack.org/issues/7/3.html

[foiboitoi]

The idea that politics isn't conducive to a productive environment isn't strange. "Keep politics at home" is a phrase I've heard all my life. And it's advice that has deescalated many situations and got many non-productive time wasters back on track. I've been in (middle)management before, so I'm not just blowing smoke.

[icebraining]

The idea that politics isn't conducive to a productive environment isn't strange.

No, just reactionary and hypocritical. You can't avoid politics, it's present in any social setting, and in any decision you make that affects others, particularly large groups of people (such as - Mozilla users). By shutting out debate, all you're doing is enforcing the political status quo.

[geofft]

Yeah, it's not uncommon for people who hold currently-centrist views to discourage dissent, to prefer de-escalating people's opinions, and to regard threats to their power and way of life as non-productive. All of those are way easier than defending currently-centrist views straightforwardly.

[foiboitoi]

I'm not talking about government here. Sure fight the status quo of the government. I'm not applying centrist politics. It's neutralist, without left, right or center entering the equation. I know this never works when you're in HR, but it's not theoretical.

Yes there are work environments that deserve abundant politics, rebellion & real resolutions. But most people aren't working in Vietnamese sweatshops or diamond mines in the C.A.R.

[icebraining]

  “There is nothing that is not political. Everything is politics.”

[foiboitoi]

Politics - Achieving and exercising positions of governance for organized control over a community.

It may be in many places & affect many things but it does not encompass everything. Absolutists are always wrong eventually (no matter how satisfying the quote is).

[geofft]

And being in a management position at a company doesn't strike you as organized control of a community?

[icebraining]

That's the narrow definition; I'm talking about the wider conception of politics.