[omonra]

The war I am referring to is Israel's War of Independence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War - which the arabs lost.

Subsequent conflicts are simply an extension of the same one - one side's unwillingness to accept Israel's existence.

The territories in question are occupied because they were lost in the war of 1967. Had there not been that war (effectively started by the arab states), Israel would not have taken over the Egyptian / Jordanian lands (which never had a Palestinian state there).

[jrochkind1]

And meanwhile, what is it you actually want the actual people living in the occupied territories, 2, 3, 4 generations on, to actually DO? They should acquiesce to living without civil or human rights indefinitely, because some nation-states of the purported same ethnicity as them (which have never treated the Palestinians well either) lost a war 50 years ago? (it's debatable who 'started' that war, but it doesn't really matter)

People living under that kind of repression have always resisted, throughout history. Always will. You probably would too.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with the OP really, or HN.

[omonra]

Ok - that's a fair point.

Given that palestinians don't really have a functioning democracy, it's hard to say what the actual people 'can do'.

However - we can look at opinion polls for ideas. Right now majority of palestinians support waging a war with Israel:

"“A majority of 74 percent favors Hamas way of resisting occupation. … Furthermore, 56 percent favor the transfer of Hamas’ armed approach to the West Bank and 40 percent oppose that,” the center noted."

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/03/25/new-poll-shows-wh...

As long as that is the case, Israel will respond in kind. Look at what happened after Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza.

So when we talk about 'living under opression' we have to be mindful of the alternative which they continue to refuse.

For example here are details of the latest offer that was refused: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.645676

I fully accept that it's not an ideal solution for majority of Palestinians who would prefer Israel to disappear altogether.

PS I agree that this has nothing to do with OP or HN - but any discussion of Jews (or Holocaust) turns to 'but what about the Palestinians'. C'est la vie.

[jrochkind1]

> However, the Prime Minister's Office said the document was a U.S. proposal that Israel had never accepted. "At no point did Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu agree to withdraw to 1967 lines, divide Jerusalem or recognize the Palestinian right of return. That was and remains his position," Netanyahu's office told Yedioth Ahronoth. read more: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.645676

[omonra]

We're getting into the nitty-gritty of he said-she said, leaks, etc. Maybe after a secret proposal is rejected, Israelis can not admit having proposed those things (since in the next round of negotiations, that will be the starting position that must be improved on).

The point is that there are proposals put on the table regularly. They probably do not include all things Palestinians want (Jerusalem, right of return) - but they never will. So all they have is sitting with nothing in relative squalor while waiting for a city upon a hill.

Parent comment asked me what I would do in their shoes - I'd say 'Ok, fuck this, I'll take what I can and build a life out of it - because otherwise my grandchildren will live in the same conditions'.