[tempodox]

Exhibit A for how questionable this Sandboxing is when it comes to things like programming languages. And exhibit A for how Mac is becoming a household appliance instead of a general-purpose computer that YOU own and do with what YOU want. If you want to own your Mac you need to stay away from the AppStore at the very least, and ideally build all your shit yourself.

[webXL]

I'd bet that fewer than 5% of Apple customers want a general-purpose computer, and it hasn't deviated much from that over time. Apple has always locked down their hardware and software relative to their competitors. The "it just works" philosophy isn't free, and if it seems like it's getting more locked down, it might have something to do with Apple trying to maintain its profits in the face of increasing competition.

The "household-appliance" moniker is a red herring though. Just because they supply an App Store doesn't mean you have to use it, and it doesn't mean you can't do amazing things with it. Are we really comparing something that can help educate, research, run a business, entertain, etc. with a dishwasher or TV?

[nobleach]

As I sit here in my building with 400 others sitting around me writing code on Macbook Pros. Knowing that in this industrial park alone there are other startups with hundreds of employees doing the same thing. (And this is in Utah - not San Francisco) I'd venture to say that 5% may be extremely off base. I'd say, you take every coffee-shop college student and match them against thousands who are writing code as we speak.

[webXL]

So "people writing code" == "people who want a general purpose Mac"? And I didn't say Apple customers who buy/own Macs. Keep in mind that a lot of people get an iPhone or iPad first, then want to be more productive with a keyboard and larger screen, or just want to keep buying App Store-enabled Apple devices in general. These are not professional coders and are the overwhelming demographic that Apple is selling to.

Do you think they don't know who their customers are?

[nobleach]

As opposed to a sandboxed device? Yes. Someone who wants the freedom to write code, install VMs, test browsers, compile C, you name it, no, they do _not_ want a little sandboxed device. The college student at Starbucks typing a term paper? sure.

[noelsusman]

You can do all of those things with OSX. This whole discussion doesn't make sense because you can do pretty much whatever you want outside of the app store ecosystem.

[s73v3r]

"I'd bet that fewer than 5% of Apple customers want a general-purpose computer"

I'd bet that fewer than 5% of any computer company's customers want a general purpose computer.

[rdsnsca]

Its not required to install apps through the MAS.

[15155]

Yet.

First it was a setting in the preference panel, preventing you from installing non-MAS apps without disabling it.

Next it's the upcoming rootless OS X, System Integrity Protection: it's only a matter of time until the ability to install non-MAS apps is completely removed, buried, or hidden in Recovery mode (as the SIP setting is)

I suspect this will happen within the next one or two major versions of OS X.

[microtonal]

Yet.

And we have heard this for how long already? Doing so would basically be suicide for the Mac. First of all because a sizeable chunk of users are technical users. Secondly, a lot of software is not available in the Mac App store and likely will never be (I think Microsoft and Adobe would rather abandon OS X than giving 30% for each cloud subscription to Apple and being at the mercy of the MAS gatekeepers).

[tempodox]

As to your question of “how long already”, I found a blog post (not mine) from 2000 A.D. that considers “The Future of Apple's Curated Computing”:

http://widgetsandshit.com/teddziuba/2010/05/the-future-of-ap...

[teacup50]

Every single release, Apple tightens the restrictions and grandfathers in the existing things people use.

It's not "yet" -- it's now, with each release, and getting worse each time.

[s73v3r]

No, it isn't. Not even close.

[jkyle]

> First it was a setting in the preference panel, preventing you from installing non-MAS apps without disabling it.

Pretty sure the default is MAS + Signed Apps. This setting also doesn't actually stop you from installing a non-signed app. You just have to right click and select open to bypass the warning.

I actually keep this enabled so I know if an app isn't signed. So installing non-signed apps is a conscious decision.

[JadeNB]

> You just have to right click and select open to bypass the warning.

I think that you also need an admin password, which can be an issue for users who don't control their machines. (My work distributes Macs with users configured to be admins, but on Windows machines only allows standard users, so I assume that it's only a matter of time until they change policies and this bites me.)

[JadeNB]

I'm a little surprised by the downvote; I may have made a mistake, or it may be something peculiar about my configuration, but, when I try to run an application, even if I control-click to bypass the policy, I still have to enter my administrative password. Is this not the way it usually behaves? (As I say, it's a work computer, so perhaps they have some unusual security policy in place.)

[joesmo]

And every single version, including minor version upgrades, this setting goes back to "MAS and identified developers," despite me explicitly setting to "Anywhere." If that isn't obnoxiously bad UI design (that I'm sure some idiot will defend), I don't know what is. I love the hardware, but the software is slowly turning to shit because of bugs (especially core bugs like not supporting many Bluetooth or RF mice/trackballs) and "features" like this. No two ways about it.

[MaysonL]

Did you remember that when you set it to "Anywhere" it gave you a little warning that if you didn't use the anywhere option for 30 days it would rever to "MAS and identified developers"?

[porsupah]

Your installation would appear to be anomalous, as such reversion of that (or indeed, any) preference isn't the norm.

[tempodox]

It wasn't the norm in the past, but that has changed. For those whose memory goes back to the pre-X MacOS, there has been a decline in “respecting your user's decisions” and an increase in inconsistencies. Progress in some areas has definitely cost quality in others.

[kstrauser]

I'm using the Yosemite beta and it hasn't reverted my setting.

[joesmo]

Nope. Tested it on three different systems and it happens every single upgrade.

[jaegerpicker]

It hasn't happened to me, on any Mac that I use. 7 different OS installs (I develop for iOS and Mac professionally) something is wrong with your profile that you are restoring or something. That's not the standard MacOS behavior.

[mason55]

And if this happens then I won't upgrade or I will stop buying Macs.

Until then I find them to be the best laptops on the market.

[jeromegv]

This setting in Preference Panel is opt-in, not opt-out. Default behaviour does not reject non-MAS apps. Most likely a security setting for companies or restricted environments.

The rest is pure speculation.

[15155]

Which part was speculation?

The SIP setting is most certainly "opt-out." Have you demoed El Capitan?

The Preferences -> Security -> Allow non-MAS/non-signed apps setting is most certainly "opt-out" on any machine you buy from Apple or at the store.

Prefacing something with "I suspect" generally allows one to speculate.

The trend is that you're gradually losing control of your machine.

[tempodox]

I see the same tendency and I don't like it at all. It seems only a question of time until you will have to decide whether you want a computer or a Mac.

[s73v3r]

I suspect you're crazy pants.

[s73v3r]

No, it really isn't. There's no reason why this app couldn't be distributed outside of the App Store, in which case YOU can still do what YOU want.