[trominos]

"'Socially mainstream means leaving work at 5pm and going to the pub, that’s what “normal” people do,' says one commenter.

Honestly, I fail to see how this sort of argument differs from asserting that black people are lazy or Latinos are stupid."

It's different because, as far as I know, it's not actually true that black people are lazy or that Latinos are stupid (on average). Whereas that comment as quoted is technically (more-or-less) correct.

[jacoblyles]

Former investment banker here. I got the feeling that my ex-coworkers were at the center of the social mainstream. But when I was at the office late on a Sunday night, I could see that they were hard workers with a focus on getting things done when it mattered.

The biggest difference between a banker and a computer geek is that the banker drinks more and has a better looking girlfriend. Both of them work hard when the success of a project depends on it.

[trominos]

Based on the stereotypes I've heard, I'd say that investment bankers are also outside the "social mainstream" of workers.

EDIT: Okay, I sort of see your point. My feeling is that if you consistently work long hours you definitionally put yourself outside of the "social mainstream," because I was thinking of "social mainstream" as "the set of people whose non-work lives are fairly similar to the median".

Whereas I think you're using a definition closer to "people who aren't 'weird'/'losers'". I don't think that's what the original commenter meant, but it's possible. And if that's what he meant, I think you could be right.

[/EDIT]

For the record, I don't (necessarily) agree that geeky people are more likely to do good computer work than non-geeky people. I just think that it's a valid point of discussion, and that in particular comparing the quoted comment to racism instead of addressing it is both incorrect and incredibly obnoxious.

[jacoblyles]

>"Based on the stereotypes I've heard, I'd say that investment bankers are also outside the "social mainstream" of workers."

Well, they are far more likely to have season tickets for the local sports team than four-day passes to Comicon. They do have a high-percentile ambitious streak that is abnormal.

The idea that socially mainstream people can't work hard is ridiculous. However, it is probably not helpful to bring up racism, as our modern culture cannot handle discussion of racism rationally. "Racism" is substituted in people's minds as "absolute evil", so it's good style to leave it out of discussions except when absolutely necessary.

[unalone]

Past a certain point it becomes "live and let live". I'm sure the things you like are things that other banker might not be able to stand; similarly, if you tried walking in his shoes you'd find how uncomfortable you found them. So from just what you wrote it sounds like you and the other guy found an equilibrium, where you were both happy with what you had.

[btilly]

Would your opinion change if you were presented with evidence that blacks are lazy and Latinos are stupid? Would it then become OK to say that about blacks and Latinos?

Let me provide you with some information.

There is a distinctive American black counter-culture. That culture puts down people who put too much effort out for work and say they are "trying to be too white". To the extent that someone has internalized that culture, there will be a tendency to work less hard.

For many years now the USA has been experiencing something called the Flynn effect. Each generation grows up in a more technological environment that pushes children to learn to think better than the previous, and as a result IQ scores improve over time. The effect is so significant that a person who measured as a genius in the 1920s is likely to be considered borderline retarded today.

Many Latinos in the USA are immigrants or the children of immigrants from agricultural countries. These countries have not changed as much as the USA, so people there have not undergone the Flynn effect to the same extent as most American groups. Therefore it comes as no surprise that measurements of IQ versus ethnicity show that Latinos underperform whites on IQ tests. So by our standard measurements of intelligence, Latinos are (on average) less intelligent.

Now that I've presented you with that information, would you say it is OK to say that blacks are lazy and Latinos are stupid? Hopefully not because it is a hurtful thing to say that makes life unnecessarily more difficult for the many hard-working blacks and intelligent Latinos out there. And it is doubly hurtful because there is just enough truth in it for people to take the stereotype to heart and apply it to people who it doesn't apply to.

[joe_the_user]

The mainstream works harder!?

My whole love of all things math and computer has been based on the slogan "the other guy works harder, I work smarter"!

If geeks aren't thinking that way, they're losing something.

And like the procrastinator, of course I'll work really hard in order to work smart.

[gaius]

That commenter was me, and I didn't mean it at all in the sense of "normal" people being "inferior", it was simply an observation. The majority of people will finish work at 5-6pm, then go to the pub (or to some other social activity, or home). That's not a good or a bad thing, it's just how it is. But if you want to be a part of "mainstream" social life, then a profession that often keeps odd hours is probably not for you, was my point.

Hands up who's rolled into the office at lunchtime and hacked through 'til 3am... Would you trade that for 9-5 in a blue suit?