[lucd]

France voted against the european constitution (referendum), only to see it instated through Lisbonne treaty, this time without referendum.. So much for EU democratic values..

[ptaipale]

The constitution treaty (TCE) was rejected, and the Lisbon treaty is not the same. Lisbon treaty did change the previous treaties of Rome and Maastricht, but again, saying "only to see it [TCE] instated through Lisbonne treaty" is disingenious.

The Lisbon treaty does not cover the same things as the TCE did, only a subset of which there was consensus.

[antientropic]

France is still a democracy, and the democratically elected French parliament had the right to vote against the Lisbon treaty. Which they didn't.

[fooballs]

For all we know they were bribed to make it go through. There is absolutely no accountability or democracy in the EU.

[ptaipale]

It is all right to point out that there are problems in accountability or democracy in the EU, but that "absolutely no" is so manifestly untrue that it takes away credibility from anything you say.

[rorykoehler]

In Ireland we voted on Lisbon until we got the right result. Makes a mockery of democracy.