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Frontend: The web visual editor (kickstarter.com)
70 points by marizmelo 4600 days ago
Kickstart campaign for the most advanced open-source web editor for your browser.
21 comments

A shameless plug for my own similar open source project with an already functional version http://www.brickseditor.com/. It uses Bootstrap for the layout but there are plans to support other frameworks. It's built on AngularJS. I'm currently working on it full time. Maybe there could be some way we could collaborate if this Kickstarter isn't successful?
The Database section needs a bit of work. When I click on Database I'm stuck. I HAVE to create a table which I then cannot rename. When I delete the table I'm in the same situation, lock down.

Other than that, very nice.

Thanks. I'll fix that bug.
Very nice! Yours is much more than just a front-end editor, yours create complete apps.

EDIT: And yours is not MIT licensed and has separate commercial licenses.

The goal is to allow make the whole development process, from prototyping to deployment, easier.

It's AGPL. The commercial licenses are for people or companies who may want to modify it without releasing their modifications back to the community. If they don't want to contribute their code, they will at least contribute financially.

It really does, just don't over-complicate things and add support for plugins and it will be perfect!

Do the commercial license cost 299$ per year? Is it limited per install, or company-wide?

Support for plugins is high priority!

It will be per install. I just put that price as a baseline. It will be adjusted depending on the needs and use cases. If you would like to talk about it in depth, shot me an email.

Took me a while to find the repo:

https://github.com/sorich87/bricks

Sorry sorich87, I've never heard about your project. I did not create Frontend using Bootstrap (you can plug yourself anyways). The project is built using AngularJS + NodeJS + Vagrant + MongoDB (with support for other databases).
I looked through the site and peeked at the sample application. I am just posting to say, I like the concept of your application. Good luck!
Why would you do a 10 minutes introduction video ! I can't watch anything longer than 2 minutes.
Well, it's not really an introduction video. It's a video showing me building a contacts management app from start to finish. I plan to make a proper intro video later. As a one man project at this time, it's a little tricky to prioritise. There are so much things to do: adding new features, fixing bugs, creating a proper website, creating documentation, etc.
looks very nice. I especially like that it's fast
Thanks. I'm trying to keep it simple, fast and extensible.
It pains me to see how he repeats the same action for each subtitle-block element, doing the same thing 3 times total. Imagine you had a scrollable area with 20 blocks.

If it's a mockup editor, then it should be easy to customize from JS to make anything useful from the mockup.

If it's a site builder, better add support for templates, so that one would then be able to drag and drop data (e.g. json) onto the canvas and bind it to a template to automatically populate a whole set of elements at once.

P.S. No matter how slick your UI is, if it's not programmable, it's not useful.

The system has a code editor for your convenience @alco. I will try to make that more clear.

Also, you will be able to select multiple elements and parent elements and apply the same actions.

Although Frontend is impressive, the target market is a bit blurry. As a front-end developer, I don't see myself using such a tool. And non tech-savvy people would probably feel a bit overwhelmed and would still have issues designing a decent layout considering it's not their job.

For some time, I've had in mind a service where people could easily build their websites. A bit like Squarespace (which is amazing) but with a different interface. For many clients who only need a homepage, a contact page, an about page, and some content pages, I usually end up building a custom WordPress theme because its admin interface is efficient and user-friendly, and because I have much experience in it. But still, I don't consider it the best tool for the job.

I'm not a great programmer, but I have UI, UX, and front-end skills. I'll probably try to develop a workable draft of this app I have in mind, but if anyone is interested in building an easy-to-use platform for non tech-savvy people, feel free to contact me. I have some ideas about how the workflow should be and what features it should have.

Hi bbx, Sorry if I could not make clear the market for the product.

Frontend is suppose to be an open-source general purpose web editor.

Beginners can use the visual mode, expert can access the source code to make things better. An ORM database plugin is on its way, along with other many cool features.

I am waiting to see how the project goes before I release the stretch goals on Kickstarter.

We hope you join us too.

I am working toward a similar goal with my open source project (respondcms.com): allow the developer/designer to focus on design while allowing the end-user to focus on creating content.
I have been watching on this CMS for some time, great job!
Thank you. It is always a work-in-progress, but it (hopefully) gets better with each release.
>easy-to-use platform for non tech-savvy people

Hasn't this been beaten to death by now? There are a handful of decent "free" website editors out there already. They tend to produce generic and unprofessional websites because the target market isn't going to pay to have a decent theme.

Hey I emailed you. Not sure if I "decoded" your address correctly from your profile. If not my email is in mine so say g'day :)
Looks cool. But nothing related to Photoshop. They can say this something like iWeb or DreamWeaver, but not Photoshop at all.
Bro, do you even Bootstrap? Edit: Sorry, it's not Bootstrap, it's their own framework. Though visually it's very similar.

But seriously, I'm not sure who this is for. It looks like there's quite a technical hurdle to setting it up - node.js and vagrant aren't easy to install for a novice user, and they aren't suitable for any shared hosting environment that I've come across.

I imagine (possibly incorrectly) that the market for simple point and click interfaces wouldn't necessarily overlap with that of people who are comfortable setting up complex hosting environments.

Now, as an online subscription model, I think it could be quite competitive. That's an entirely different route which definitely has a market.

Hey jwarren. Thanks for the comment.

Online system is definitely an option down the road.

About the setup. Basically the only thing you need to install is vagrant. The Frontend VM has all the files and tools required to run the application on your machine.

1. Install Vagrant (with our installer);

2. Run VM

3. You are ready to go.

The open source part of it is cool, but i still have a couple of issues with it:

+ why do you need 75K as a minimum ? Sounds a bit high, even for 2 people

+ They say its built with node, but what about the frontend of frontend ? Only jquery ?

+ does it support bootstrap or other layouting frameworks?

+ when will they let people contribute to it ?

Id really like something like this being open source, but in that case i feel it would need some more flexibility to be integrated into CMSes and Frameworks. Abstracted reusable components to plug it into existing systems, some kind of Content Repository integration for versioning etc. If thats the plan, ill fund in a heartbeat. If its meant just as a downloadable tool to built basic websites it wouldnt have much appeal to me though.

Hey kayoone. Let's see:

1. The goal was set after carefully look other software project costs on Kickstarter. Also, 75k is the average income for a software engineer here in Silicon Valley (the living cost here is crazy);

2. The front-end of Frontend is built using AngularJS, our own JS Library, JQuery, JQuery-UI (just for the visual editor, not included on production projects), and QUnit/Jasmine.

3. It uses xtyle framework (also open-source) by default, but you can choose to use Bootstrap;

4. We will first open the Github repository for early backers. After the project is done the repository will be open for everybody else.

Integration with frameworks and CMS systems are on its way. We are planning to release a list of stretch goals for the project.

> Abstracted reusable components to plug it into existing systems,

The problem is stuffs like that are supposed to run in the browser, the more bloated your code base is the worst performances you'll get.

Doesnt mean everything should be tightly coupled, my point is no matter what people say web apps are not desktop apps, web apps are slow,sometimes you need to trade decoupling for performances.

I think the last time a product like that got kickstarted it "won" more that 100K , so of course people are going to seek a similar amount of money for these kind of projects, though i dont believe these tools are that usefull in reality.

It is a CMS in itself. How is 75k high for two people? Are they supposed to commit to living below the poverty line?
It's not just for two people.according to "Why crowdfunding?"

We are asking your help because we would want to give 100% focus to xchema frontend, and it is not possible by doing our daily jobs. With your support we will be able to afford renting a working space, work full-time, hire talents, and bring frontend to your hands.

They say its "An open source Photoshop replacement for web design" in which case it would be cool to integrate something like this into existing systems. Starting yet another CMS system from scratch doesn't sound like the best idea.
In which country living with $75k is living below the poverty line exactly?
As I understand it, that's for 2 devs. Subtract the Kickstarter fees, sending out the Kickstarter rewards, and various taxes, that leaves them with maybe $20k per person. Of course, that number is meaningless by itself, not knowing how long it will take them to complete the project. If they devote more than a year to the project, depending on where they live that's not a lot of income.
It's 75K for two people.

This is 32.5K each if we pretend Kickstarter didn't take any and there were no other expenses for the business.

Living wage for a single adult with no children in San Francisco is $26,692. For two adults with a kid its $50,186. http://livingwage.mit.edu/places/0607567000

SF is an expensive city, but so are most large cities in the world.

So yes, 75K for two people would be close to the poverty line. I'm surprised they're not asking for a lot more.

Developers have completely lost touch with what an average wage is for a single person family.
Have you seen Webflow[0] and Froont[1]?

[0] https://webflow.com/

[1] http://froont.com/

Yes, they are great. I have met with the Webflow team (great guys).

The differences:

1. Frontend is open-source;

2. Database integration;

3. Plugins (components) create by users;

Other differences will appear on the stretch goals.

Yes, but they are not open source.

Have you seen divshot, jetstrap or easel?

You probably have, are they open source? NO!

Do the components include back-end Node.is code also? If so I really hope your project becomes popular and is open source. Because I think that developers should code components not UIs or reinventing Crud or email sign up forms. So this is the right direction for developers not just designers or novices. The popular approach with a lot of manual code for basic things like layout and other things is very dumb. Components are the way to go.
Components should be easy to plugin on the system using any available APIs out there. Facebook Login, Twitter Feeds, Database integration, etc. Our goal is not to build a simple visual editor. We want to create an ecosystems for developers, designers, and regular users. This is just a "kickstart".
Hey everybody. Please give a second look over the project. We tried to make clear the differences between Frontend and the other options out there. Let us know about anything we can improve on the Kickstarter page. Thank you.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/emoriz/frontend-the-web-...

Webflow, an existing product, is much more powerful and pretty affordable. Macaw, if it's as awesome as it looks in the demo, may be better than Webflow.

This, this is thoroughly underwhelming. Sorry.

If open source is your biggest differentiator, I think you should emphasize this. Being able to use this as a part of other environments would make it much more compelling. Maybe change up the kickstarter page?

Webflow is great and Macaw seems amazing, but let me try to make the difference clear here:

Frontend vs Webflow:

1. Frontend is open-source (as you mention);

2. Frontend has a databased integration (ORM);

3. Frontend let users create their own components and templates and plugin on the system;

4. You can develop locally (for speed) and push projects to the web whenever you are done;

6. You can host frontend on your own server online and deploy projects from there;

Frontend vs Macaw:

1. Frontend runs on the browser, there is not "preview" process;

2. Frontend is open-source;

3. Frontend let users plug their own components and templates;

4. You can develop locally and push projects whenever you are done;

5. You can host frontend on your own server online and deploy projects from there;

6. Frontend is responsive (mobile ready), with Macaw you need to check if your project will work on mobile first (and on tablet);

More differences will appear on the stretch goals.

Thank you for the comment.

1.How is it different from macaw or Adobe Muse ? 2.I did not understand why are you using a custom web framework xtyle , instead why not go for Bootstrap ?. Its already used by millions and you also save a lot of time. 3.Components feature sounds exciting , but how much similar is it to angular directives. 4.What is target market ? front-end developers or non-tech people?
Macaw and Muse are commercial tools. Frontend was created as an open-source alternative.

We use xtyle by default, but you can for sure use Bootstrap (its your choice).

Components are anything you can plugin on the system (including directives if you are an Angular developer). The target market are front-end developer, designers, and non-tech.

What is so f'ing special about bootstrap?
This is Microsoft Frontpage all over again.

I'm sure they will have market: people who don't have the money to contract serious developers, and some novel developers who may like this idea, but in the end, I think it's a product with few possibilities.

Looks to me like it works pretty much just like Squarespace (except self-hosted and open). The way Squarespace makes it easy for non-web-designer folk to put together nice-looking websites is excellent, so it's a good model to work from.
It irks me that this is called Frontend. It's not, it's design. Call it Design. Or Frontpage 2013. Whatever. Frontend is a development skill, which requires intricate knowledge of markup and javascript languages/frameworks.
Oh come on. "Frontend" isn't a skill. It's a piece of software that makes interfacing with another piece of software easier.

There have been frontends long before there was HTML.

That's a fair point. I may have made the assumption that this was named after the skill.
What about https://rukzuk.com/en/ ? Not open source but the only tool I found which has integrated CMS. Website says it's even extendable with custom code.
It's a really nice tool, but it's a SAAS - no go for us.
The video looks promising.
The reward structure is odd. For example, the 'super backer' $1000 level is limited to 200, yet the rewards given (e.g. The memory stick) are unlimited in the previous levels. Why artificially limit yourself to 200?
You are right Joosters, thank you for your comment. We will work on the rewards.
This seems to be more or less exactly the same as http://jetstrap.com
Looks like its different because its not for building only front ends but actually fully functional websites on Node.us. and its open source.
The product looks amazing but the Kickstarter reward levels need to be rethought.
I agree sycren. We are first timers on Kickstarter, but we will work on that. Thank you for the comment.
there are many of this apps already, and while there are a couple that are nice my question is: has anyone actually ever used any of this for something serious?
Yes but this one is slightly different being open source - it means (rather than everyone re-inventing the wheel) it can be integrated into Drupal, Wordpress, any other CMS... which I for one would be in favour of, as it would level the playing field again.
+1 for this excellent argument!
You have captured the idea porker. Thanks.
Nice. What technologies are you using to build Frontend?
If you have no ideas - create secure messenger...or web builder.