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Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory (english.mapn.ro)
231 points by _tk_ 6 days ago
16 comments

As part of the SAFE EU financial instrument Romania is spending a lot of cash on defense measures for drones and other armament[1]. Currently still relying heavily on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flakpanzer_Gepard for anti-air as well as fighter jets with air-to-air missiles, as these recent drones were all brought down by F-16s.

Aside from strategic targets, a lot of the civilian infrastructure is quite vulnerable to drone attacks as there's a huge border to cover and definitely not enough anti-drone tech deployed. An apartment building was hit months ago with no casualties: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/apartment-building-hit-...

[1] https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/media/news-watch/news/2026/06...

> Romania is spending a lot of cash on defense measures for drones and other armament

Some of this is going to be stalled - Romania was planning on deploying the Iron Dome [0] and Spyder [1] for AD which was going to be co-produced by Volkswagen in their German factories that were on the chopping block, but Qatar (Volkswagen's largest minority shareholder with 17% voting share) blocked that deal [2].

[0] - https://www.jpost.com/international/article-861770

[1] - https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/sy1n3pcfzx

[2] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-07-10/qatar-blo...

Iron Dome is designed for protecting from home made rockets made with dung from the Gaza Strip. And according to research the main reason for the low casualty rate is actually the early warning. How exactly is it supposed to help with real missiles and drones?

How do these scams keep happening? Why doesn't anyone care how their taxpayer money is spent?

Exactly. Iron dome was designed for Iranian designed drones and missiles (designed with Chinese help). There is nothing "home made" about palestinian actions, or "the cause", not even the propaganda that it's all homemade. Built by Iran too mostly (again with Chinese help). These are the exact missiles raining down on European cities.

China even built in insurance (check what the fuel is for the more advanced rockets, then check if Iran can actually synthesize that fuel ... heh. Weird)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-57092245

Oh and to add insult to injury, the big problem with both European and US air defense, being overwhelmed by numbers of drones and rockets, is something Israel has demonstrated how to deal with a dozen times. In fact this system was designed for that.

Therefore Iron dome, Israeli experience and Israeli tactics are exactly what's needed here.

But of course politics are more important than direct demonstrations and weapons fire showing exactly who Europe's enemies are. Sorry that I ever suggested anything remotely different. Apologies. Please continue.

> home made rockets made with dung from the Gaza Strip

Homemade bottle rockets are a 2000s era Israel thing. Now it's Ababeel, Mohajer, Shahed, Arash and other Iranian drones deployed in Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen, and Iran. The same kinds of drones being used in Ukraine and operated by Iranian personnel [0][1][2] that are also the same make as the drones shot down in Romania as well as Poland.

Ukraine also gave us intel linking Iranian strike capacity with Russia [3] and Russia has previously offered to stop giving Iran geoint and strike intel in return for the US stopping geoint and strike intel sharing with Ukraine, which the US rejected [4].

[0] - https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2026/03/10/8024839/

[1] - https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/11/07/7375314/

[2] - https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/10/23/7373119/

[3] - https://xcancel.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/2081074329115078813#m

[4] - https://www.politico.eu/article/putin-offers-stop-intel-iran...

For me, I just hope the country collapses and we spend the next ten years prosecuting everyone who caused this outcome and overthrowing the existing system. It’s inevitable with how brain dead leadership is throughout government and corporations. The relentless greedy morons have taken the yoke.
If the country has to survive and recover rather quickly, not collapse, for your prosecution scenario to be likely and effective against any significant share of the people who caused this.
It's astonishing how many people really seem to think that total collapse / destruction of a system can be an effective way for fixing things
F-16s with human pilots and a2a missiles vs cheap drones? That’s one hell of an asymmetry and doesn’t seem robust enough to handle 100x the scale.
Ukraine is using old training aircraft with a guy with a shotgun in the back shooting the drones down.

Just think the small Cessnas and pipers littered around that could be used for a similar task.

https://youtu.be/GrzzYTXgnMQ?is=zChAgYfc5ZEi25gt

Edited out bad grammer

Kinda reminds one of the evolution of the air war during WWI. Planes were used as observation platforms to gather intelligence about enemy fortifications and activities. They were more mobile than balloons and could gather more timely information. Both sides flew past each other just doing their jobs until someone thought they could drop a grenade or small bomb as they surveilled the other guy. Then aerial bombing started to become popular. Around the same time pilots armed themselves and would take pot-shots at enemy pilots, usually with sidearms. Before long machine guns were fitted to planes and synchronized with propellers and pilots were able to dogfight.

I think the next natural step in Russia's defense against Ukrainian drones countermeasures like this, shooting them down with shotguns, will be to arm the drones. Then it will be up to Ukraine to counter that threat and the cycle continues as always.

The advantage of using a drone is that it is cheap to produce, but it needs to be really simple to stay cheap. Arming it with a machine gun that can target an airplane trying to shoot it down would be very expensive.
Not really. They are already in service.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=As_cifXH1Fs
A rifle most likely - you probably don't want to be within the shotgun range when the drone explodes.
Yea the Gepard seems like a much better fit for those cheap drones.

Unfortunately it's been long discontinued and it's successor Skyranger is still facing some technical difficulties as of recent reports.

Yeah, something is preventing them from just putting a small autocannon onto a turret and firing it from a Python script on a laptop. Russian drones and missiles seem to be just straight flying kinds, and while there are reports of Stinger type missiles seen installed on them, there haven't been reports of them growing anti-mortar radars. Most of them shouldn't need guided munitions at all to deal with.
Time to revive the Sopwith Camel
Yeah, obviously F-16's & humans scale very poorly for this. However:

- At one-a-day scale, political and risk considerations probably favor the expensive solution.

- Using F-16's reveals nothing about your current anti-drone defenses. (Yeah, it's also a real-world basic competence test for your air force - for better and for worse.)

- If your intel people want more data on the drones, an F-16 can haul a whole lotta intel-gathering equipment to the show.

- If you're dealing internally with some head-in-the-sand traditionalists dragging their heels on updating your doctrine/equipment/training to deal with drones, then "real world, right now" examples are probably useful.

(BTW - do the articles say "a2a missile" anywhere? F-16's typically mount a 20mm cannon, a cheap drone is not a hard target, and cannon rounds are dirt cheap by compare.)

Ukrainian F-16s have used cannons to shoot down some Russian drones. Cheaper than a missile, but a somewhat risky maneuver as it requires getting close at low altitude and possibly flying through the exploding debris.

https://www.zona-militar.com/en/2026/02/09/ukrainian-f-16am-...

Thanks. With the relative speeds, I'd guess the Falcons would use an attack profile similar to ground strafing - letting them pass well above the cloud of debris. Any thoughts?

Also, Wikipedia gives a 3km effective firing range for the M61 - but it'd be no surprise if the F-16's standard targeting optics can't achieve that against small airborne targets.

This video shows a Ukrainian F-16 doing just that along with reactions from a pair of experienced US fighter pilots. It seems they're shooting from closer than 3km.

https://youtu.be/xuriiDzSB5k

It's not meant to. That's why Ukraine receives the support it does, because they take the brunt of it.
URL appears to go to home page of RO military, another URL is: https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20260726-romanian-jet-sho...
Nice to see a France24 link in the wild, it is a very underrated news outlet
France24 does a lot of very solid work related to one of my particular areas of interest in the Iran/Afghanistan/Pakistan region. It's also a great alternative to any US news sources even for news about what's going on domestically in North America (though the CBC has more breadth of coverage, for sure).
Just keep in mind that's literally owned by the French government.
That’s probably a factor in why it’s able to maintain such high quality.

Though most French commercial media are not bad, either.

I think it is not owned by the government, rather by the state.

In a democracy, how is this a bad thing?

>Since 2008 the channel has been wholly owned by the French government

Explain to me why reading news from the state is a good thing? Kinda shocked that people here applaud state-owned media (there is no difference between "government-owned" or "state-owned").

The government it can use its media to influence its citizen and try it to change election results or create propangada.

France is executive heavy democracy similar to US and Latin American States. This is a very big flaw and state owned media might be contribute to.

What is the distinction between government and state?

As for your question, Russia is nominally a democracy but I wouldn't trust the veracity of their state media reports.

> In a democracy, how is this a bad thing?

Because democracy is effectively mob rule, which means minority voices may get shut out.

Yeah, just like the BBC is owned by the British government. Less clickbait and scaremongering, I guess.
Including on the dimensions of (1) having a very fast website and (2) not having any paywalls. Feels very good to read.
Yeah a solid propaganda arm of the French government
Not the only one though: I remember what happened when we 'invaded' Lybia: not one criticism in the French news anywhere, total censorship, even though our media had widely and correctly criticised the US for the Irak war..

So I think the best thing is to get news from everywhere Russia, China, the US, Europe, but that's a lot of work..

It is also not possible as there is censorship in some cases. The European Union has blocked rt.com.
That is blocked because far too many EU residents were taking it as 100% fact and acting upon it.

The block is only DNS level, IIRC, and doesn't affect VPNs.

As compared to what more trustworthy, honest news sources? Please name a few, I'm curious.
Two things can be true at the same time. The lack of good sources and the fact that france24 is pure propaganda.
Usually the argument is that because a reputable news agency with a history of high quality journalism made once a mistake, it's better to listen to some angry podcaster with a history inviting cooky nutcase, or sketchy Twitter account with history of boosting fake news as jokes.
The home page shows 3 consecutive press releases for the past 3 days each detailing a similar incident.

The first drone on 24.07 took ~80min to intercept and shoot down, well into the country. The other 2 were shot down within kilometers of the border so they’re paying closer attention.

The asymmetry between the drones and the F16 neutralising them quickly makes this financially unsustainable.
Yes, but it also trains the pilots and everything around them for real action in a non war environment (you cannot just shoot anywhere in civilian airspace).

And they would need to train anyway.

But for a real conflict, sure, more economical solutions are on the way.

I believe that Sun Tsu said something about using your enemy's military to train your military.
I love how people are pointing this out thinking NATO countries aren’t currently doing a Manhattan-light on drone defense.
I think the idea is that you don't keep sending just one F16, but the problem is long before an age of drones we built up some catch me if you can bullshit where we expect smaller countries to ignore airspace violations.

Like bro... you got a GPS. Get the fuck out of here.

It's not World War 3. It's just two increasingly overlapping unsolvable wars involving two increasingly coherent geopolitical blocs consisting of dozens of countries spanning three continents, most major nuclear powers holding 95% of global nuclear stockpiles and the vast majority of global military spending and resources, with nuclear-capable cruise, ballistic, and hypersonic missiles flying back and forth, attacks on strategic nuclear early warning systems, threats of nuclear first-use and global nuclear holocaust, etc. Fighting over issues the leaders of the involved superpowers and great powers have described as existential and beyond compromise.

Not World War 3 though, currently.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jul/26/ukraine-war-br...

Are there enough nations on Russia's side to call them a bloc? It seems like almost everyone is supporting Ukraine.
India and China are both supporting Russia in various overt and covert ways. That's a huge fraction of the world.

Iran is even more closely linked. Arguably the real reason for the American attack on Iran is to reduce their contribution to the Ukraine conflict.

Plus Russia's various Toadies (which included Hungary, an EU nation, until recently)... It's a pretty sizeable bloc.

It's not yet an all out Axis and Allies situation, but it's definitely not just Russia against the world.

India and China are the only reasons Russia hasn’t collapsed on itself yet. Much to the detriment of a country that had no interest in being invaded.
> Arguably the real reason for the American attack on Iran is to reduce their contribution to the Ukraine conflict.

How nice of Trump and Netanyahu, thinking about the world peace and Europe's well-being.

While they are clearly leading this war for their own purposes, both require the support of a governing apparatus (the Republican and Likud party bureaucrats) who have their own motivations. Those motivations are not necessarily positive, but can at least be understood in terms of a national policy rather than individual temper tantrums.
> individual temper tantrums.

whatever the rationale for starting hostilities against Iran, the situation we are currently in is best described as an individual temper tantrum.

North Korea is definitely part of the Russian bloc now.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clypr5985ejo

Now? It’s always been part of the Soviet / Russian block.
China is a bloc unto itself
The only nations against Russia are in Europe, or run by absurdly corrupt right-wing dictators. The problem with supporting Russia is that the US is psychotic, aggressive, and takes pride in causing civilian casualties. It will starve your children to death as a openly proclaimed tactic; it loves to double-tap. Russia isn't going to hurt you for being neutral, but the US will, joyously.

Europe doesn't even really support Ukraine, it just hates Russia for defeating it in WWII. Thank God France has nukes, or Germany would be invading it again for not showing enough support for Ukraine and Israel.

edit: Poland is starting to remember what the Ukrainians did back then, too. And to notice that the psychotic Ukrainian nationalist minority (that we funded and armed) are proud of having done it, and would do it again.

It's not Ukraine that regularly threatens Poland. Russian propaganda is truly only for absolute brain dead - how can you at same time fantasize about bombing Warsaw, jam GPS over Baltic, do hybrid war across Polish-Belarusian border and say that actually Ukraine is the real danger. Unfortunately there are lots of people that are stupid enough to actually believe this.
russia's invasion of Ukraine is absolutely solvable. It's just a disgrace that Ukraine is left to do it alone, with huge casualties (civilian as well as military), and inconceivable destruction.
No, it's not that complicated - one country invaded another - that's it.

One is a nuclear power, so the reaction is not what it would be otherwise.

This is the same as Russia invading their neighbours like they have since Peter I.

Given how poor their Ukrainian war is going, this is a strange move. I guess it’s mostly just posturing?
The logic I’ve heard is that one of the more palatable defeat conditions for Russia is that they’d rather lose to NATO than Ukraine. So they’re fine to push limits because even the worst case scenario gives them better options.
This. Losing to Ukraine is a massive humiliation. Losing to NATO is “fair” in their eyes. Even now, pro-Russian sources refuse to believe the current drone swarms and highly advanced deep strike drones wrecking havoc on Russian oil infrastructure (see the official state of emergency declared in Crimea and fuel shortages in other regions) are caused by Ukrainian drones. They keep making up some sore loser nonsense about these being NATO drones or some clever trick like drones released from trucks inside Russia. Meanwhile even the Pentagon is buying Ukrainian made drones: https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/ukraine-a...
No - Putin believes he can win, this is to scare NATO.

He's not wrong - this is a war of attrition and Russia is about to raise 500K-1M soldiers - if they can do that, and keep Ukraine on their backs, it's possible Russia could break through.

Unlikely but possible.

Ukraine has difficulty recruiting and equally high desertion rates.

'Eventually something has to give'.

I think it's unlikely and that Ukraine will be able to hold out.

> about to raise 500K-1M soldiers

Russia has developed necromancy?

It is ye olde reconnaisance by the tip of the bayonet. How long can you prod before someone says "ouch!"

For the case of a hot war, knowing the detection and destruction capabilities of your future enemy is valuable.

Having seen posts in social media by the usual suspects from previous such incidents, it's a way to convince the audience at home that the enemy (NATO) is actually weak and that there's no need to be alarmed.
It offers valuable information on response time.
These are cheap decoy foam drones with less electronics. The amount of fuel decides how far they fly. Favorable wind? They fly further.
They are cheap but the rockets to shoot them down cost (I've heard but don't count on it) around $480,000 per missile. That is not a minor consideration for a country like Romania.
Absolutely not the ideal weapon to fight them, and better(cheaper) options are coming to shoot down the drones, but until then the price is irrelevant as long as you're preventing loss of human life.
Saving any nonzero amount of lives for any unbounded cost is not necessarily a good trade, if there are ways to save more lives for the same cost, or the same number of lives for a lesser cost.
The actual volume here is tiny, so the costs pale in comparison to political and economic consequences
We're not at the point of making those kind of decisions in Romania, fortunately. Politically right now it would be very dangerous to say that "some of you may die".
> The amount of fuel decides how far they fly. Favorable wind? They fly further.

Is this true for non-decoy non-foam drones and basically everything else that flies, even things with solid boosters? Seems like a strange part to add here as it basically applies to aviation in general, replace "fuel" with "stored energy" and literally all type of "vehicle" fits basically.

A non-decoy drone would presumably go no further than its target, at which point any leftover fuel just adds to the fireball. Whereas making a decoy drone go down before the fuel is exhausted is pointless waste, when instead it could be decoying a little bit longer.
Putin's only option is to escalate at this point, otherwise he's seen as weak with the war going so well. The Romanians should also be really getting their act together and start shooting the bogeys down.

Turkey didn't think twice before shooting down a Russian Su-24 in 2015 for violating Turkish airspace for about 17 seconds. This is how you "negotiate" with the Russians: first you break their nose when cross some red line, then appologize.

The Turks never apologized to the Russians. They said the incident was regrettable. Which is consistent with the overall "don't fuck with us" message that was being sent.
“This is how you "negotiate" with Turks: you kill dozens of them, then don’t apologize.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Balyun_airstrikes

And in turn Russia's ally Assad was removed from power by HTS aided by yours truly, Türkiye.

https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/IN/HTML/IN124...

Anyway, the key to securing the Black Sea is Türkiye with the other smaller NATO allies.

They've been doing this for years.

I don't know if it's to try and circumvent Ukrainian defenses or to provoke a reaction to sell to domestic audiences though.

Deescalation by escalation is a standard russian tactic.
Move by whom? Drones straying from the intended route is usually caused by jamming from the other side.

Escalating tensions between Russia and NATO is in Ukraine's, not Russia's, interest.

You’re missing the fact that Ukraine desperately needs missile defense, and these incidents incentivize its neighbors to keep all their defenses to themselves.

No one wants to be blamed when they can’t defend themselves when Russia attacks.

If NATO as a whole responds, yes it's in Ukraine's interest. If the NATO response is weak and non-cohesive, it is a victory for Russia, demonstrating article 5 isn't worth the paper it's written on. Let's see how things play out. So far we're in "small, plausibly deniable provocation" territory, but if this follows the "salami slice" M.O. we would expect Russia to keep slicing if they feel there's not enough push-back
NATO not going total war over a few airspace incursions does not prove a lack of resolve to defend its territories. Russia is also not salami slicing its way to anything if it's not causing meaningful damage or territorial exchange.

Conversely, Russia(n leadership) would probably love an overreaction by NATO to unlock the use of its conscripted army for "defense," which is not feasible in the current war of aggression.

To strip away your rhetoric, you are saying it is Ukraine's fault for Russian drones flying into Romania.
The only loaded rhetoric is coming from you, I merely stated what the incentives are. Note that the situation is somewhat symmetric in that Russia also has an incentive to misdirect Ukrainian drones toward NATO airspace (which has happened).
> misdirect Ukrainian drones toward NATO airspace (which has happened).

Claims to such effect has been made in public by reputable persons but they are not very credible nor has any supporting evidence been shown in public.

Drones getting lost due to GNSS jamming is happening.

But intentional misdirection towards a target would require GNSS spoofing capabilities over an impractically large area and that the drones would be susceptible to simple spoofing. They have satellite navigation, inertial navigation, terrain following cameras and listen to ground based radio sources like cell towers and are designed to operate in hostile RF environment. Just sending a fake GPS signal (several of them) won't make the drone divert to a specific target or direction.

I'm not buying the misdirection story until more compelling evidence is made public.

I made no claims as to whether misdirection is happening or feasible, only that there are incentives for both sides to do so if it is, while there are no incentives for Russia to take on a much larger enemy while it can barely handle Ukraine, which OP was implying was the obvious explanation.
His name indicates a troll.
To counter this conspiracy of yours: Ukraine was in a much poorer position in the past and didn't resort to this type of jamming with the hopes of dragging NATO into the conflict. Today, they are in a much stronger position, striking deep into Russia and even the Caspian sea https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/iran-says-ukrainian-att...
I hope they don’t send any to Bulgaria. Our PM is waiting exactly this to declare we’re joining the Russian federation.
How are Russian drones entering Bulgarian territory going to give the PM the chance/excuse to join Russia?
I don't know if this is their case, but some politicians don't care much about their arguments making sense. In this specific case, a politician could either claim the drones come from some other country, and Russia is going to protect them, or that they need to join Russia for them to stop.
There's no logic behind russia's pretexts.

In 2014-15 they started shelling civilians in Donetsk and Luhansk regions, then used that as a pretext to increase their military presence by pretending it's all local militias fighting back the shelling the ruskies themselves started.

The pretext was fully fabricated, the militias theatre was fully fabricated. Nothing made sense. To anyone with a pinch if intellect the truth was obvious...

Yet, the legend of Ukrainians murdering other Ukrainians for using russian language has rooted so much, even now some ppl believe that bs.

In case of Bulgaria, ruskies could attack, then attack again pretending russian-speaking population needs protection in the light of the first attack.

And right-wing nutheads in EU gonna believe that, and blame NATO for offensive expansion

No

Logic

Whatsoever

> we’re joining the Russian federation.

Based PM, from one of your neighbors just North of the Danube.

Why not just move to Russia yourself? Live under a strong traditional leader and culture.
Waiting for our liberators from the Western yoke right here in Bucharest, you've got a problem with that?
I wouldn't recommend that strategty. EU-NATO defence spending is increasing and having the front-line pass over you is somewhere between an extremely harrowing and a deadly experience. You can immediately (and reasonably safely) get the strong and traditional ruler you want by just migrating over. Russia says they respect national minorities, and they offer incentives for workers willing to migrate. What's stopping you?
Why are these drones so easy to shoot down, but the ones invading airspaces over nuclear bases and other sensitive installations hundreds of times for months all over Europe and the east coast of the US were never shot down or tracked even once?
Because Shahed 131/136 are large, way larger than surveillance drone/quadcopter. We are talking 2-3m wingspans and 130-200kg launch mass.
One other reason, Shahed drones are preprogrammed with their target, they're not being flown by an operator who can quickly change their course. They're basically a cruise missile with propellers.
Different types of drones.

These are Shaheds - big, slow, dumb, you can see the coming.

The one's over Europe were sneaky little FPV drones, like consumer grade ones, launched by FSB people nearby.

I guess because the have an explosive payload and it's better to take them down before they reach a populated area.

The other drones are probably not going to cause an explosion (unles they colide with a plane) and are already in a populated area, so it's risky to destroy them.

They are all just as easy to shoot down, if you're willing to spend half a million dollars doing it. When you're Romania that hasn't been fighting a war for years and you get one a day, it's trivial to shoot them down. When you get tens to hundreds a day and you're Ukraine, it's harder since you cannot afford to use F16s and sidewinders to shoot them down. And even if you do, you cannot shoot down all of them, but when you just get one a day, it'll be a while until the 95% interception rate gives you a miss.

Oh, wait, Romania actually got hit by one. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c93x4nxlkjeo

It's just a matter of numbers, both percentages and money.

There are many more that are missed in Romania :)
Because those weren’t drones, they were people noticing for the first time that there are airplanes in the sky.
Dozens of sensitive military bases, nuclear facilities, and airports reported incursions and some shut down their air spaces in response, are you saying the Air Force, NORTHCOM, and airport air traffic control don’t know what airplanes are? The Coast Guard and NJ state police also reported sightings and even pursued some of the drones.
Yep. Officials aren't immune to mass hysteria, and there's immense pressure to assume the worst "out of an abundance of caution."

"Having closely examined the technical data and tips from concerned citizens, we [DHS, FBI, FAA, and DoD] assess that the sightings to date include a combination of lawful commercial drones, hobbyist drones, and law enforcement drones, as well as manned fixed-wing aircraft, helicopters, and stars mistakenly reported as drones. We have not identified anything anomalous and do not assess the activity to date to present a national security or public safety risk over the civilian airspace in New Jersey or other states in the northeast."

Either they were wrong about the nature of the sightings when they happened or they were wrong afterwards, there's no world in which they got it right the whole way through. So the only question is which way they got it wrong. I see no reason to believe that they were correct in the moment and wrong afterwards.

Because they were being flown by their respective governments.
They shut down their own airports and military bases because their own craft were flying over them?
We seems scarily only one rogue actor or screw up from WW III in Eastern Europe and the Middle East.
Don't we already have that? It's just a smoulder instead of a conflagration.
Do you feel threatened that Russia and Iran will succeed in conquering all of Europe and the Middle East? I see it more like a couple of misbehaving misfits. That's very different than say, WWII.
But they don't have to succeed, invasion of Baltic countries could potentially be enough to start WW3, even if russia does not have capacity to win it.
How about WWI? This feels more like the start of that - blundering toward catastrophe.
This situation does not resemble the beginning of WW1. wW1 was caused more or less by an inept leader (the Herman Kaiser Wilhelm) with way too much power.

Putin cannot play the part Wilhelm played in 1914 because Russia has very little power.

Xi Ping cannot play the part Wilhelm played because he is too smart (he is one of the shrewdest and smartest leaders rn). If Xi Ping starts to lose it, then yeah, we may have WW1. Until then this is a very different situation.

And President Trump?
> I see it more like a couple of misbehaving misfits.

Those zany kids!

> Do you feel threatened that Russia and Iran will succeed in conquering all of Europe and the Middle East?

Iran has a strong stance to significantly increase influence in the Middle East if not restrained: they have many way (not just Hormuz) to project power on oil countries, and essentially force them to switch sides.

The main threat to Europe is if Trump ever makes good on his threats to take Canada and Greenland. If the US turns truly hostile, then Europe has a serious problem. Especially if Putin and Trump decide they want to split Europe between the two of them.

It's a very extreme case, but it would get extremely messy. Putin on his own is something Europe should easily be able to handle as long as they've got Ukraine on their side. Trump's erratic disruptive attacks will hopefully end at some point. I'm not worried about Iran at all, except internally.

Fortunatly Trump won’t be a major problem for long. I’m more worried about the techbro community who want to usher in a neo-feudal empire based around resource control.
> problem for long

Seen the news of the past hours about the 2028 intention?

>"Putin on his own is something Europe should easily be able to handle as long as they've got Ukraine on their side."

500+ million people and corresponding economy needs Ukraine to protect themselves? this is just plain pathetic or what's worse proof that the EU would fight Russia to the last Ukrainian

Well, not even the Nazis managed to permanently conquer Europe, but the destruction they still wrought on the continent was enormous.

Even a victorious war is destructive. I'd like to do without, but I am just a random hobbit in this regard.

Where the misbehaving misfits are the aggressors, i.e Russia, the USA, and Israel?
People keep bringing WW3 up but I disagree. There's such a huge aversion in EU countries against any kind of war against Russia and the governments know it. They will let a LOT slide on Russia's side before any kind of retaliation (and I mean by force) is coming. Russia could probably kill several service members with a drone, claim it was an accident and the only thing coming from Europe would be a stern letter, some more sanctions and telling off the ambassador (and the Kremlin knows this too).
I mostly agree but there has been a lot more coming from Europe than stern letters. They've sent a lot of weapons to Ukraine, funded more, and intercepted Russia's fleet. That could and likely will get stepped up.
That is the point of these "one offs".

My read on the situation is that Putin knows that he's stuck, and baiting nato into some (likely tepid) response gives him an excuse to expand the next call up / draft.

Hawe you been in coma? There has been a ww2 sized war in eastern europe for 4 years
A "World War" probably isn't characterized by its "size" (whatever that means) but rather by the fact that the combat theatre extends over much of "the world", or that much of "the world" are active belligerents. Ukraine is right now a localized conflict; I don't think it counts.

FWIW, as one potential size metric: casualties in Ukraine (so far) are comparable to the Korean or Vietnam War, and an order of magnitude less than the World Wars (even though the world has roughly 4x the population now than in 1939). It's much more comparable to those conflicts than either of the World Wars.

All major (and some minor) world powers are invested in this war in some way. China, Iran, India, the US, Russia of course, Europe. By population that's a lot. By power or influence that's also a lot. I think the main difference is the overt-ness. War has changed a lot since WWII, was have a lot "safer" and longer distance tools, including financing. Financing is way different now, it's instant for starters.
Russia has had more casualties than the UK/US/France combined in WW2
British, American, and French deaths made up only a small fraction of the 60M-75M killed in WWII, which speaks to the global ("World") nature of a World War.

I believe it's also the case that more Vietnamese died during the Vietnam War than the UK/US/France combined during WWII as well.

No, there has not. One state is using a substantial amount of resources, US and others are donating EOL equipment and pocket change and Ukraine is managing to hold back the country expending a lot of resources. WWII had multiple global powers shift their entire economic output to war machines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_war

The big part that I didn’t see was whether this was a Russian drone or Ukrainian drone
They're Shahed drones, used by Russia.
In September the Russians accused the Ukrainians of having repairing downed Geran drone airframes at the Lviv LORTA plant, transferring them to Yavoriv, and launching them unarmed into Poland. They presented various evidence like serial numbers, photographs of silver-tape repairs, claims that a Ukrainian SIM-card was used, lack of impact destruction, etc.

What's true though? I don't believe that I have a way to find out.

Russian credibility is at ~zero IMO. They've put forth so many insane theories related to this war that they started.

And just on first principles, how stupid would the Ukrainian have to be to do such a thing to their biggest ally? It almost beggars belief.

The Nord Stream destruction was made to Europe by their big friend Ukraine.
With EU blessing.
Yes?

They would love to have a cause to involve anything NATO.

And for the first principles you are surely didn't miss: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr7xzg3dmj8o

A safe option is to avoid trusting an aggressor, which has no business being in Ukraine and that can pack up their bags and leave at any time.
Usually you can find out. There are probably radar records showing them coming from Russia. But people aren't that interested and it's hard to keep up with the firehose of falsehood coming out of Russia constantly.
> I didn’t see was whether this was a Russian drone or Ukrainian drone

From the france24 article:

> A government investigation reportedly identified the first of the three drones as a Shahed model used by Russia in its war with Ukraine.

Shahed drones are used only by russia and iran
Drones shot down in Romania, Poland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Finland, etc.

These are probes. Judging responses and response times.

Rumor is Polish GROM have been inside Russia for months.

Edit: See sources in my comment below. I bring receipts.

> These are probes. Judging responses and response times.

Some, yes. Many are merely defective units. These weapons are being manufactured in enormous quantity and deployed rapidly with minimal quality control: based on the reported numbers over Ukraine, the net manufacturing rate is about 10 per hour. Inevitably, some are defective and fail to follow waypoints. Romania is on a line through numerous targets in Ukraine from the Kursk region where many Russian drone flights begin, so Romania ends up being the unintended destination.

The good news is that the defects likely represent resource problems for the manufacturers. The same phenomena has been noted with increasing failed missile launches from Russia.

Can you elaborate on the last sentence? It sounds crazy.
There are rumours that Polish GROM has been taking “vacations” in Ukraine. As in “we cannot officially approve your presence there but we won’t stop you either”, from the government.
I watched a related Chris Cappy video the other day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RBY1cY-GF8

> Poland's elite GROM commandos have become legendary (...) in this episode, we explore (...) the covert war between Poland and Russia, and why Polish-speaking commandos are appearing inside Russian territory.

yes, it is a big [citation needed] for me
See gattr's comment above

Basically GROM getting "leave" and then ending up with their whole team inside Ukraine as "contractors", just with deniability.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/polish-mercenaries...

Regarding efforts to provide deniability for their operations, a Polish officer informed him: “we worked out a formula for our presence in Ukraine … we were simply sent on paid leave. Politicians pretended not to see this.” The Polish Volunteer Corps has appeared to use the same model to provide cover for the mass deployment of Polish Armed Forces personnel, who are technically former personnel when entering the theatre, with their presence having for years been widely reported on multiple frontlines. In February 2026, the lower house of the Polish parliament adopted legislation to provide legal cover to Polish citizens who fought in the ongoing Russian-Ukrainian War.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/07/03/russia-pla...

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2026/07/12/8043770/

https://abcnews.com/International/wireStory/baltics-poland-w...

Edit:

Added: https://youtu.be/5RBY1cY-GF8?is=rVFFKVnBxkmsF9aM

Pic: https://x.com/intermarium24/status/1659954927299440641

It's always amusing when one side claims what the presence of NATO personnel in UA is "just Russian lies" only to post the confirmation of it themselves.

It's even more amusing when you see pictures like this https://i.redd.it/ex4jgoqir4qg1.png

"just Russian lies" was, at least where I have seen it, was reply to claims about whole NATO armies send to Ukraine and lost with tens of thousands killed in action

Or claims that EU is freezing to death or food running out (or soon will be)

You are mixing legitimate sources reporting the intelligence suggesting Russia is seeking a provocation in Poland with a Kremlin propganda channel lying about Polish commandos operating in Ukraine.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/military-watch-magazine-bias/

Thanks, wasn't aware of that website backing.
Occam's razor. Decoy drones with a bit more fuel or favorable wind.
AIUI Russia has been regularly intruding into Finnish airspace and has often penetrated the land border with Georgia.

It’s one of those “let’s see how much we can get away with” probes to try to establish a new status quo. I wonder how Russia would respond to NATO drones doing the same.

Turkiye demonstrated how to stop this a decade ago - shooting down the trespassing bogey. It worked.
Time to expell some more Russian embassy staff.
Because Russian's war with Ukraine is unsustainable, something has to change for Putin for him to remain in power, and one option is an escalation with NATO.

Some other scenarios also explained in this good video

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jDhYFSGkaAc

>"something has to change for Putin for him to remain in power, and one option is an escalation with NATO"

I think us couch experts including author of that particular video have no fucking clue what he will do and what the true state of affairs is. Had all those expert prediction materialized Russia would've already disintegrated 10 times and Putin would've lost power in a first months.

Luckily being 73 and in what appears to be poor health can’t last forever. I can’t imagine spending my twilight years being one of the most hated people on the planet, but the head of the USA and Russia seem to have no issues with that.

“Father Time is undefeated.” - LeBron James

Hoping for Putin to get sick is unhelpful. Trump is still in power well past 80, after all. We would do better to plan for a future where Putin rules Russia for another 10-15 years.
Trump is 80. Putin is 73.
The poor health thing "Putin is sick" was a FSB psy-op. Maybe he's sick in the head but otherwise in good health.
He does look a lot better than his American counterpart
Putin is a lot more careful about the image he projects and his public appearances than trump.
Why would Putin want people to think that Putin is sick or infirm, and his ability to lead might be compromised? His entire schtick is that he's a strongman leader and the only reliable option in Russia.
It's basically targeted maketing. They pretty much wanted the West lethargic and unreactive at some point early in the war. Like "don't bother sending aid to Ukraine because Putin is kicking the bucket soon" kind of a narrative.

In Russia yes, they project the strongman narrative.

I’d have thought the effect would be the opposite. Support Ukraine because it’s only going to be a short war, as Russia will be giving up soon, so why let them get conquered?
What? In other words, you're saying: "Russia is losing war with Ukraine, so it wants to start a second front with bigger enemy".

Also, how's Ukraine war is sustainable for Ukraine? It's economy is non-existent (almost 100% dependent on western donations), it has less than 50% of population of 2022 (they don't publish any population stats directly, but if you combine available statistics, there are about 10-15 millions left most of them old retired people or young people that are too young to send them to the front lines), they are losing territory every day.

This is some weird "Ukraine is winning but front is moving in the wrong direction" logic.

A war doesn’t need to be sustainable for Ukraine, it’s existential. For the aggressor that backstop doesn’t exist. They could literally stop the war anytime they wanted so they need to continue to prove it’s sustainable to keep doing it.
Not all wars have a simple way to say who is winning, who is loosing. See the Vietnam war, different Afgan wars.
Ukraine is gaining some ground, but very slowly. It's basically a stalemate. Except that Ukraine is making the war extremely costly for Russia with the recent attacks on refineries and other targets deep into Russia.

As long as the EU keeps supporting them, I think Ukraine will be better able to maintain the current situation than Russia. But Ukraine is nearly as exhausted as Russia, and I think a European coalition sending real practical ground and air support would help a lot. I suspect sufficient support could force a breakthrough in southern Ukraine an liberate a very large chunk of land very quickly.

The reason that's not happening is either that NATO thinks this would give Putin the excuse he needs for large scale mobilisation, or simply because Europe is afraid to get its hands dirty. I don't think the former is nearly as big an issue as some believe; Putin has never needed any action from NATO or EU members to justify escalation, and has never responded to imagined red lines getting crossed.

The latter is more likely. I think Europe needs to remember the sacrifice that Canada and the US brought to liberate Europe in WW2, and recognise the moral obligation that creates to liberate others in a similar position. Like Ukraine today.

> Ukraine is gaining some ground, but very slowly. It's basically a stalemate.

Ukraine has been gaining some open fields, while losing major urban areas. Kostyantynivka just fell and Russian troops are securing the high ground overlooking the Slovyansk-Kramatorsk urban conglomerate. Pokrovsk also fell faster than expected, suggesting that Ukraine increasingly lacks the infantry manpower density to defend urban terrain.

> As long as the EU keeps supporting them, I think Ukraine will be better able to maintain the current situation than Russia.

European support doesn't rectify Ukraine's critical vulnerability: manpower...or a lack thereof. Although Euro governments seem like they might start deporting military-age Ukrainian males back to Ukraine so they can be forcibly conscripted....because sending men to their deaths against their will screams "Western liberal values", or something.

> I think a European coalition sending real practical ground and air support would help a lot

Russian analysts have been coming on Western alt-media outlets warning that Russian hardliners are increasingly advocating for striking logistics and military production sites in Europe. HistoryLegends has a good video about how France, one of the more experienced and expeditionary European countries, absolutely struggled to even get a brigade into Romania for an exercise. Europe could definitely send air support.....but do you think European citizens are ready for their cities to eat Oreshniks (at a minimum) as a response?

> I suspect sufficient support could force a breakthrough in southern Ukraine an liberate a very large chunk of land very quickly.

There isn't enough combat engineering vehicles in all of Europe to clear lanes through the Surovikin Line. The Ukrainians already learned this the hard way in summer 2023.

> Kostyantynivka just fell

Has it finally fallen? Because Russia has been trying to take it for ages now, against staggering losses, and keeps claiming they control it when it turns out they don't. They do that a lot. Mostly because they desperately want to have good news to report to Putin. They are advancing, but incredibly slowly, and at enormous cost, and Ukraine regularly does take land back.

But you're absolutely right that Ukraine is short on manpower, unlike Russia which seems to have endless reserves of people to send to very rapid deaths. Ukraine is doing a lot to fill their manpower gap with drones, but their lack of manpower is exactly why I think Europe should come to their aid.

> They are advancing, but incredibly slowly

Their tactics have settled to extremely-small infantry infiltrations across almost the entire frontline. Warfare has evolved and concentrated mechanized assaults have been abject failures for both sides; it's far too easy to mass fires than it is to mass maneuver forces (see additional commentary (1) at the bottom). Russia's ground strategy is probably the least-risky way for them to keep pressure on the defenders and husband their own resources.

> their lack of manpower is exactly why I think Europe should come to their aid.

Be the change you want to see in the world: https://ildu.mil.gov.ua/news/how-join-armed-forces-ukraine

(1) Normally I would blame both air forces for lacking the capacity to systemically disrupt the defender at all depths.....but if we look at the Israeli aggression against Lebanon, the Israeli air force has total air dominance and their heavy mechanized forces are still struggling to advance. FPV drones basically quadruple the range of every ATGM team at 10% of the price.

It has turned out to be luck in disguise when Trump stopped weapon deliveries to Ukraine. Because Biden, Trump, and the Germans set all kinds of limitations so as not to strike Russia. For the first three years, Ukrainians were defending with one arm tied behind their back.

Now, when they finally can damage the Russian economy enough to make the war unsustainable for them, there is a chance we can get an end to this confict.

Ukr is attacking Retailers (Wildberries) in Russia because Russia helps Iran attack Amazon (US retailer) Data centers in the Gulf.
Nothing to do with Amazon. They sell military and dual use goods, that's why.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2026/07/26/8045972/

I think you’re misreading the comment and conflating Putin’s survival with the current war. I believe the OP is saying the administration can’t keep selling the war with Ukraine as a good idea indefinitely and will need to pivot to something more marketable. In our Internet-shaped world, everything is entertainment. This particular show has run its course and needs a pivot, add new actors, make a Very Special Episode or kill off one of the main characters.
> one option is an escalation with NATO.

Wouldn't this make the situation much worse for Russia, and therefore for him as well? The oligarchs will know who is to blame if Putin starts a war with NATO.

war with nato means he can more easily convince the russian public to go along with mobilization

russians arent excited to go die in ukraine, but defending the homeland from NATO is a different story

The oligarchs aren't the ones controlling Putin, it's the other way around. But yes, escalation with NATO is a very poor idea, given Russia's struggles with a single non-NATO country.
I belive it's the other way around only up to a point. If the situation gets too bad, I believe they have the resources to overthrow him.
Regime security for Putin in an escalation/mass mobilisation situation is high. The chances of the Russian economy surviving are poor.
Often economic crisis leads to less regime security, not more. Why would it be different in Russia?
Watch the video in the link and it is quite well explained there.
Do not bother with the youtube video.The essential ideas is that Putin could scare European Countries into surrendering Ukraine. This video legitimizes that scare tactic. Nor does it deal with the underlying issue, which is that like Hitler and Nixon, Putin believes he is infallible. As a result the world as he sees it and the world as it is will continue to diverge.
On the contrary, the video gives an excellent analysis of Putin's options, and it's definitely worth watching.

You're right that Putin believes he's infallible, and the Nielsen makes the point that Putin often picks the most stupid option. But it also emphasizes that Europe needs to be ready to act if Putin decides to escalate, and if the US chooses to abandon NATO.

Does not pass the smell test. The Youtuber has an axe to grind. Also, tracking in the URL.

Why make it more difficult if the current situation is unsustainable? Does not make sense.

> The Youtuber has an axe to grind

It is Anders Puck Nielsen who is a serious military researcher and commentator. He is a go-to by any television channel in Denmark and has been from the start of the war.

He very much passes the smell test :)

Removed the copy-paste tracker.
“Dear Mr Putin, Please don’t use our airspace to attack Ukraine else we will be forced to write you another slightly more strongly worded letter next time. Thanks, NATO”
With the heatwaves and drought in Europe it's probably not the best time to have flaming wreckage falling from the sky.
Hasn't it occurred to you that typically when an explosive drone reaches the end of its flight, it, er.. explodes? Or that if it isn't shot down, that the last moment of its flight might kill people?
Romanian here, living close to the border (~30km). There are no big forests nearby - we're safe. Some wheat fields might catch fire, but sometimes we do that intentionally anyway.
It's never a good time to have flaming wreckage fall from the sky.
Some things are relitive. It's never a good time to have 10 people get killed by an explosive drone, but that may be better than a million hecter fire that kills 10,000.
The comparison is not really relevant in this case, as the area over which the drone is destroyed was taken into account on all three drone events.
The France24 article says the drone was shot down over the Black Sea.
...as opposed to it hitting the fucking target ? what are you smoking?
What does this have to do with startups?
>What does this have to do with startups?

You know, I used to have this style view when reading and commenting Slashdot, pre-9/11 about anything other than "the tech".

Afterward, in high school, I began to feel that understanding the foundations of geopolitics can help you maintain an advantage in the business world.

Not much, but it's interesting and I think a large population of users here are curious about drone tech
> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.

Seems ths qualifies in spades.

The "interesting new phenomenon", obviously, is the potential of the generalization of what expressed in the title. It has very evidently both relevance to intellectual curiosity and a potential of impact on our activities.
> The "interesting new phenomenon", obviously, is the potential of the generalization of what expressed in the title.

Why is this thing so difficult to name and you need to describe it in such a roundabout way? "Drones might be shot down a lot"? It's neither new nor an intellectual curiosity. "Drones are used for war" also not. It's been happening for years now. What is so interesting? Can you name it without references to generalizations of expressions of other references?

> Why is this thing so difficult to name and you need to describe it in such a roundabout way

Because it is a multifaceted thing. Where, how, how much, why, what next... And the rest of the "W"s.

Read the posts: we find them interesting.

It's all a sham so that we, Romania, would be dragged into this war. That will only mean the end of the comprador regime currently ruling over us, but until then most probably many of us, Romanian men, will get killed "defending" the Western regime. Such is life, i.e. requiring sacrifices.