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Reid Hoffman says SpaceX 'not an AI company', xAI 'complete train wreck' (fortune.com)
83 points by 1vuio0pswjnm7 1 hour ago
20 comments

How is Reid Hoffman relevant?

Someone like Elon being asked for their opinion on tech - I kind of understand - was at least at the coal face of SpaceX and Tesla for a time, seemed to understand the tech and was not terrible when it came to direction.

Zuck I'd get, Bezos, Dario, Sam - but I don't actually get why Reid is always in the conversation - he's never been in front of anything

As the article said, Reid Hoffman is on Microsoft’s board and is an investor both in OpenAI and Anthropic.
So, a guy with probably one of the largest incentives in the world to trash xAI is trashing xAI?

The information content of this is rather minimal. Even if everything he says is literally true it's hard to tell through the massive, massive vested interest he has.

And it doesn't help that...

'Hoffman, who is an investor in both Anthropic and OpenAI, pushed back firmly on the narrative that the two companies are in a zero-sum race. “We tend to want to tell these stories as cage matches,” he said, as in two companies enter and only one leaves, but “in fact,” he claimed, “there’s a lot of room for both of them to win incredibly.'

that's clearly a very self-interested gloss on the flip side of the situation. Yes, that's in the possibility space. No, I would not consider "both companies do fantastically for many many years" as a terribly large part of the possibility space. Look to all of the many past instances of industries starting up. It is a very common case that if you take the two early leaders you aren't looking at who is going to be the two biggest companies in 10 or 20 years. It is in fact a common case that neither of those companies are the leaders in 10 or 20 years. The sheer staggering size of the AI training moat at the current time may lock in the possibility that no other business could possibly overtake them... but what if somebody solves that massive training gap? It probably isn't mathematically fundamental; I can't help but observe that humans do not get to their level of capability by pouring the entire Internet through their head several times.

He probably does know a lot of things most of us don't know, but I doubt he's sharing very many of them in this article. This is just trash talk.

That Microsoft who added LARGE BLUE copilot buttons on the dialogs you get in Visual Studio when it stops on a breakpoint or exception?
I read the article - and many articles touting what Reid said - but my question remains - why in the name of god is he relevant.

He is connected and gives money to people - why should that mean anyone should listen to him about any of this. He's not actually a do-er is he?

Is there something I am missing? The amount of coverage he gets seems massively disproportionate to his skill, talent and insight.

Sam Altman is not an AI researcher, I don't think he ever worked directly with tech as an engineer either. Pure MBA-with-engineering-degree type.
> He is connected and gives money to people

Thats why. Not that we should listen to him (no clue who exactly he is) but thats why he gets attention.

>>He is connected and gives money to people

this is also known as influence so..

Sir this is Capitalism.
I truthfully don’t know the answer, but if I had to guess, his connections and positions provide him with an unusual amount of knowledge and perspective. Another might be that his opinions often are correct in hindsight.
It means his opinions about xAI are worth less than a random HNer's, since he has a very strong incentive to talk bad about it.
So he has money.
Other than co-founding one of the most successful tech companies, that is.
I'm not interested in people's take on SpaceX this early after their IPO, they have an ambitious vision and Elon Musk gets a lot of blind hatred. You don't invest into SpaceX to see returns in a month, you're in it for the next five or more years or you're better off finding a different stock to invest in. To date SpaceX is the top leader in getting things into space for the lowest cost, everyone else pales in comparison.
People don't invest in SpaceX because of space launch capability, that barely counts for their valuation at all.

The valuation of SpaceX is due to AI, namely the revenue they get for renting out their GPUs to companies that actually have AI customers, as their own AI tech has not panned out.

For the large number of companies rolled into SpaceX, they are all failed attempts to grow large enough to justify their valuations, and when a company fails to do that it just gets rolled into the conglomerate as a way of hiding the failure.

Tesla's valuation contrasted with its performance means that Tesla will likely be rolled into whatever latest vehicle of Musk's has the most attention, hiding the failure of Tesla to come anywhere near to its promises.

In that case you'd be better off waiting 6 to 12 months before buying into SPCX.
Other than launching satellites, being able to get things into space for the lowest cost is about as relevant as being able to get things to the bottom of the ocean for the lowest cost.

There's no economy in space. It's never going to be cost effective to send anything back down the gravity well, which means that the only way Musk's plan leads anywhere is if he's able to bootstrap an entirely self contained, self perpetrating economy in space. That's not happening in five years.

Edit: and no, data centres in space are not the answer.

There sure are a lot of people attacking the messenger here. This seems fairly par for anyone criticizing one of musks properties.
How is he less relevant than Elon Musk?

He co-founded linkedin a platform every one knows.

Elon Musk invented the Cybertruck and has a weird cult following through Tesla.

i mean Elon Musk called some of his kids this:

X Æ A-Xii Musk, Exa Dark Sideræl Musk and Techno Mechanicus Musk

What opinion should i give more value?

This article encouraged me to look at the investor materials [0].

The 55th slide "key metrics" wording stood out to me:

> AI: "Nameplate Compute Draw" Total number of GPUs installed in the data centers at the end of a period multiplied by the respective all-in power draw, reflecting installed capacity and not actual power consumption or utilization

Close to $15 billion in losses since 2023 and not much clarity on actual usage or impact. TIL the plan of record is AI satellites assembled on the moon.

[0]: https://ir.spacex.com/investors/default.aspx

Ah, yes. Moontime latency. 3 extra seconds to get my image of Trump dressed like Jesus strangling the devil and other useless "AI" crap.
Reid Hoffman hates Musk. Think what you will of Musk (we all have our opinions), but Hoffman criticizing one of Musks companies is the equivalent of Steve Jobs criticizing Windows. Its a personal quibble and therefore not really news worthy.
If you want to know why you shouldn't choose Windows it makes sense to get Steve Jobs' opinion and then evaluate the opinion.
It’s like Bill Gates criticizing Apple… if you really want to split hairs about the analogy used.
This is not a very good comparison because Jobs was well known for very pointed and accurate critique of software, which was one of his super powers at Apple. Bill Gates was known for figuring out how to manage software engineering, but nobody would listen to Gates about that, and in fact the only time I ever saw him critique software, talking about the complete usability failure of Windows and Microsoft's supporting websites, it did not require any sort of deep insight.

Hoffmans critique about which businesses have good promise should be taken seriously, if with a grain of salt.

It’s an analogy, it’s always going to be imperfect!

Jesus Christ.

Steve Jobs did have valid criticisms of Windows.
He still can be right.

But yeah its clear that xAI is a trainwreck and Space-X is weird cult hype.

That's like saying nobody should have listened to MLK criticising segregation because he hated the KKK.
I think that’s a pretty inappropriate comparison and you should withdraw it. Please edit your post?
It would only be like that if MLK was trying to become the lead white supremacist.
ridiculous comparison
The key part - Reid being invested in both OpenAI and anthropic should have been higher up in the article. Pretty crucial context to him trash talking XAI.

Not that I disagree with his assessment…

It was at the very top just now when I looked. That said, the site has so many distracting pop-ups and other interruptions it's hard to see anything there.
Maybe he invested in the competition because xAI is a train wreck?
Compared to what? All the comments seem to agree, but I curious if people here have actually used Grok.

I rotate between major models frequently. Grok has been up there in accuracy and research for some time, trading places with Gemini IMO. Latest 4.3 release has been solid.

Composer is pretty good and now they own Cursor. Don’t count them out yet.

So.. it’s bad, compared to what? Claude from 2 months ago?

Gemini has been atrocious, in my experience. Not sure if it's the harness or the model, but it hallucinates much, much more than GPT (via ChatGPT) or Claude, and weirdly assumes it can just answer complex, knowledge-heavy domain questions without doing a web search.
i jump about a lot, for coding gemini and grok are definitely not as strong as gpt 5.5/opus/sonnet/composer.

composer 2.5 is actually very good and use it for a good chunk of tasks.

This shows how out of touch people like Reid Hoffman is.

He thinks it's a daming accusation that SpaceX is "not AI" but in reality "not AI" means rockets and satellite internet.

The parts of the business his class cares about is the garbage, not the substance

Agree that X.ai is a tire fire.

Rockets and Starlink do not support even a fraction of the valuation given their revenue projections.

In a sane market neither will generative AI, but that’s what’s propping up this valuation at present.

So you appear to agree with him that the valuation is nonsensical.

The problem is that SpaceX financials supporting the IPO say SpaceX is a major AI company that has a minor side-hustle of making rockets that sell satellite internet.
That's the total picture of SpaceX, right. Does SpaceX as a whole make financial sense? No. Everyone knows the SpaceX "value story": AI means that a company that makes a minus 5 billion per year really makes plus 200 billion per year! IN SPACE! But, uh, about those Space parts? Surely those are cashflow positive ... right? RIGHT?

Well, no.

SpaceX it is the 50th or so rocket company. The previous ones did not fail because they couldn't get rockets working or couldn't improve on the state of the art in rocketry. The ones not supported by nation-states failed because they couldn't get the financials working. To be fair some of them failed because they couldn't get to earth orbit. But that's not the common case. More common: "New rocket type works! We demonstrated it succesfully! No launches ... so no money. We're publishing our work and shutting down. Bye". Irritatingly quite a few of these new rocket companies are theoretically more efficient than SpaceX will ever be. Also irritatingly most of these companies, through financial necessity, demonstrated a working rocket in one try, in contrast to SpaceX.

(my favorite? Aerospike nozzles. Aside from their great "Wiley E. Coyote" potential should launch fail they look absolutely incredible)

Did Space part of SpaceX get the financials working? No. Not even with Starlink (their debt repayments still drag it into the negative). What is their fix for too small a market? Make Spaceship, an even bigger rocket ... for a market that sees no use for the existing Falcon 9 launch capacity ...

Starlink: same. It's not even the 10th satellite internet company. The previous ones all failed, because the market was too small, and had to be bailed out by nation states, famously Iridium. Did Starlink solve the financials? No.

The most irritating bit of this is of course Elon Musk himself. Why did he succeed? Well he keeps mentioning himself and "starting from first principles". As illustrated above: he started from first principles, he failed (private, ie. profitable access to earth orbit? SpaceX doesn't do that), then he got incredible amounts of money somewhere to pour down a black hole (using artificial demand like Starlink) and so everything is still moving. Obviously Elon Musk's achievement is 100% finding this money and 0% practicing science from first principles".

That's also Elon Musk's great redeeming quality. What's his achievement? Convincing, first himself, then humanity, or at least enough humans to get ~300 billion in cash, that Space exploration is worth doing despite the fact that it's unprofitable. The actual technical Space exploration side he ... frankly didn't do particularly well, though well enough that it (eventually) worked. But the result is still fantastic: we're in space far more than before!

The SpaceX S-1 says they’re going to be making $320bn by 2030 on AI services at a profit margin of 74%. That dwarfs all the launch business and even Starlink, which they very optimistically project as well. This is how they supported the IPO valuation.
It sounds like you agree with Hoffman's statement. So how is he "out of touch"?
The SpaceX IPO prospectus states that the company is targeting a TAM of $28.5T, equal to roughly a quarter of the world's gross economic output.

Patrick Boyle said it best. Roughly 1 billion people on the planet make more than $12k annually (folks with "discretionary" income). Divide that TAM of $28.5T by 1B and the every single person needs to give SpaceX ~$28.5K every year forever in order for that figure to make sense. It's more than 3x what the planet spends on food currently.

If this happened it would make Elon emperor of the known universe. Can’t imagine the level of influence this would buy.

It also seems impossible. What are people seeing that I don’t?

isn't that his point?
Whilst nobody can dispute the inordinate success Hoffman has had in building and scaling LinkedIn and his work on Greylock, his associations with the Epstein files, previous spats with Musk, and his warped political views makes me question anything he says.

In this instance, I see it as nothing more than a self-serving and politically motivated diss against Musk, even if the substance of what he says is true.

Seems very relevant that SpaceX’s primary AI offerings are:

- Cursor - Lots of data centre capacity being rented to Anthropic and Google and others

That seems very much like being an AI company.

Renting GPUs doesn't make you an Ai company imo, colocation data center is more accurate. One might expect that line of business to commodify within five years.
He also probably rapes kids. And potentially easts them. Why fly on the Lolita Express Reid?
Sorry, that's a typo, it's not SpaceX, it's SPAC X - as in, Musk is using SpaceX as a SPAC to absorb other AI companies. Cursor is the first, but will certainly not be the last. So, if it's not an AI company yet, it will be soon. I mean, the humongous total addressable market from their IPO filing has to come from somewhere, and Grok will definitely not cut it...
I wake up every morning amazed that there were enough people foolish enough to buy a company with only $18B in revenue and no profit at basically at the valuation of Microsoft (a company with $300B in revenue and $100B in profit).
A ton of them are on this thread
They would be very upset with your comment if they could read!
Short it then
There are more than those two options, both of which are "take unnecessary risk on a hugely uncertain investment."
Cults remain irrational longer than the sane can remain solvent. Particularly when the cult captures governments.
OpenAI investor Reid Hoffman says competitor xAI is a "complete train wreck".

Why listen to these people when they have a clear vested interest in talking nonsense about their competitors?

These comments from investors are predictable and it is obvious why they keep doing this.

Did you not see literally every other top level comment in this thread?
"The pitch deck, he revealed, describes Manas as “an AI drug discovery factory for creating monopolies” legally permissible, he notes, because pharmaceutical IP functions as a sanctioned monopoly by design."
What a weird way to describe what is just another drug company, exactly the same way every single drug company functions.
> The timing of Hoffman’s remarks is pointed. SpaceX went public on June 12th, with AI central to its IPO narrative. Within days, the company announced it was acquiring Cursor, the AI coding tool. Hoffman’s read: that’s not proof of AI capability, but evidence of its absence. “You could almost think of it as the IAC of AI,” he said, invoking the serial acquisitions roll-up strategy of Barry Diller’s internet-era conglomerate. “Use the market cap to buy AI companies and try to buy your way into relevance.”

Sounds like securities fraud to me.

Not an AI company? You don’t have to keep selling me on SPCX, I’m a buyer now.
Careful. I don’t have anti-Musk bias, but it can both be true that SpaceX will be quite successful in the long run and the stock is still overpriced in the short run.
When it falls I’ll just average down.
Unfortunately for you, it's priced like one.
SpaceX: "Not an AI company, but priced like one"

Tesla: "Not a tech company, but priced like one"

Elon Musk's companies launch rockets, build the most high-tech electric cars, host the world's most relevant social network, deploy high-speed internet to most of the world, build one of the world's leading LLMs, I could go on...

Reid Hoffman runs a social network for spam.

> build the most high-tech electric cars

Teslas aren't the most high-tech these days. They have fallen behind on the hardware side, particularly in charging and batteries. Here's a charging speed comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy46Ag0djjk

Fantastic insight! I take his opinion as having the most merit possible in this context. Why?

Because LinkedIn is also a train wreck and game recognizes game.

linkedin is not a $3T company though.
Last week Yann LeCun called xAI a "failure"

https://www.cnbc.com/2026/06/18/yann-lecun-elon-musk-xai-fai...

>>LeCun, who was previously Meta chief AI scientist,

Well, I guess he should know.

What a terrible world to live in. Of course hes trying to convince Gen Z of the "opportunities" they have. Opportunities for him and his oligarch friends to make a load of $. Cant wait for this AI bubble to crash and dissolve a bunch of undeserved wealth.
I mean, I can see some issues with SpaceX valuation, but I find it really funny that we are now taking advice from the LinkedIn founder on HN.

Ideology is truly blinding.