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Ice Water Drowning Survival After 147-Minute Submersion and Hypothermic Arrest (jacc.org)
64 points by js2 1 hour ago
9 comments

"Survival" here being, of course, not a black-and-white thing:

    > Outcome and Follow-Up
    > On day 59, the boy was discharged to inpatient neurorehabilitation. At 6-month follow-up, he was giving short commands, standing without support, riding a tricycle, eating soft foods, and relearning simple tasks. Peripheral neuromuscular weakness continued to improve.
That is incredible. 2.5 hours underwater, 1.5 hours of CPR. They were instructed not to start rewarming him until he could be given more comprehensive treatment at a hospital. They list 'death' as a differential diagnosis...

He didn't come out unscathed though. They describe his progress:

> At 6-month follow-up, he was giving short commands, standing without support, riding a tricycle, eating soft foods, and relearning simple tasks. Peripheral neuromuscular weakness continued to improve.

which is quite limited for an 8-year old, but remarkable considering the circumstances.

Reminds me of the extended description of what it might be like to drown in an ice lake in the book Stella Maris — it wouldn't be quick.
They’re not dead until they’re warm and dead.
Well written article. Life is a miracle. We are trying to understand it & there is more to learn everyday. I remember a couple of years ago, a 50yr patient (someone I know) was saved from a severe heart attack using induced hypothermia and recovering them slowly.
I remember that cryogenesis was deemed viable in the 80ies but essentially surface area is your enemy. Anything larger than a cat can’t be resurrected. It’s pretty bizarre really, they froze mice and microwaved them back to life.
Weird! I wonder if there is some exponential complexity going on. More neural pathways leaving more stuff that can potentially break from an uneven freeze/thaw? Or is it literally that the freezing and thawing can't happen evenly when you're too big? A brief transistional period with unfrozen outsides and frozen solid insides is probably not great for you.
I would assume it is purely because of the mass.
Incredible. I wonder if they can make progress on survivability of regular drowning.
Unlikely. The issue is cold and the speed of the cold. Children have a higher surface-to-mass ratio along with less subcutaneous fat which allows them to cool quickly. The article quotes the breakpoint:

  If water temperature is >6 °C (43 °F), survival is unlikely for submersion >30 minutes.
And even still, it isn't like the child came out unscathed.
I was rewatching The Abyss for the first time since 1989 and wondered just what is the process for reviving an asystole heart[^1].

[^1]: It was only relatively recently that I learned you can't shock an asystole heart. e.g. https://medicalsciences.stackexchange.com/questions/5874/can...

CPR and a boatload of epinephrine, it seems.

That passage bears quoting at length, it's where I really teared up:

> At initiation of ECMO, the boy's rhythm was asystole. The boy was rewarmed with an ECMO heat exchanger-patient gradient ≤10 °C. [...] As the patient's temperature approached 22 °C (72 °F), low-frequency and low-amplitude sinusoidal electrical deflections were noted on his electrocardiogram. As the patient continued to rewarm, these phasic electrical deflections slowly increased in frequency and amplitude. At approximately 28 °C (82 °F), sinusoidal deflections organized into more classic cardiac electrical activity reminiscent of sinus bradycardia with a wide complex. Amiodarone, calcium gluconate, magnesium sulfate, bolus epinephrine, and epinephrine and norepinephrine infusions were administered. After further rewarming, sinus bradycardia developed and ultimately progressed to normal sinus rhythm...

Wim hof has a similar childhood story (maybe not quite as extreme)...
Wim hof has a lot of stories, hard to tell which ones are true or not unfortunately.