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Russia's doping program is run by the same FSB team that poisoned Navalny (theins.press)
99 points by dralley 56 days ago
8 comments

More scary articles I think:

https://theins.press/en/inv/290235 - Lost in translation: How Russia’s new elite hit squad was compromised by an idiotic lapse in tradecraft https://theins.press/en/inv/287837 - The mob’s humanitarian backdoor: Ramzan Kadyrov’s mafia connections reach deep into German critical infrastructure

First there was Nemtsov, then there was Navlany. Wonder who's next.

Funny thing is, if 1999 went differently Lukashenka actually had a shot at being in the Kremlin today.

I always wonder about Navalny - why did he go back to Russia? Did he really believe that he could do some kind of Nelson Mandela thing? Or that the Russian people would flock to his cause? I believe that the man was an idealist, I don't think you expose yourself to that much danger without being an idealist at least on some level or thinking that the possible personal rewards make the danger worth it, and I don't get the sense from Navalny that he was after personal rewards primarily. But with his experience in Russian politics, I feel like he should have known that the chance that his return to Russia would bring about any serious political change was extremely small. Not returning to Russia would have hurt his chances of causing political change as well, since that would have made him seem like just an agent of the Western powers. But returning to Russia at the cost of his life also did not accomplish political change.
I think you just have to accept that he was built different from someone like you. I think it's kind of a form of disrespect to say "why would someone do that?" We know exactly why he did it, he had a level of passion you don't. It's okay for you to not be passionate about anything on the level of giving up your life, but you shouldn't act like that doesn't exist or is an odd weird thing you're could never understand
I know it exists. I'm asking why he went on an extremely dangerous mission that had very little chance of success instead of using his energy on something that would have been more likely to achieve success, or on something that would have been equally unlikely to achieve success but at least would not have been extremely dangerous.
Navalny saw exile as a betrayal of both his country and his ideas and convictions. I think he mentioned that an opposition that is staying outside of Russia would lose moral legitimacy in the eyes of Russians too, or something similar.
That seems plausible to me.

I think that unfortunately for him, his support inside Russia was probably never high enough to seriously challenge the existing leadership.

It would be a noble cause if it were true. You need to really think sinister thoughts to get a glimpse of what really transpired there.

Don't think noble causes. Think money, blackmail. When thinking of timing of his death think of what else was going on in the west at that time. Think Tucker/Putin interview.

I doubt anything but money and fear was in his ideas and convictions.
Did he have a choice but to go back? Opposition taking money from interested parties has a long history. Lenin was provided with financial support by the germans. Revolution is business, people pay revolutionaries and opposition to do what they do, and once they take the money they need to deliver.

Navalnyj had very low popularity at home. He was mostly a made up hero for the western audience.

Ordinary russians not only gave no-f-f about Navalnyj but considered him a traitor or a trojan horse.

yeah, low popularity, got almost 30% in unfair Moscow mayoral elections. Go fuck yourself murzilka.
I've wondered the same. A look at his contemporary media quotes gives maybe a hint. From Navalny: "It is difficult for me to understand exactly what is going on in [Putin's] mind. [...] 20 years of power would spoil anyone and make them crazy. He thinks he can do whatever he wants."

If this quote is genuine, as opposed to wistful, it suggests Navalny's evaluation of Russia was that Putin couldn't, in fact, do whatever he wanted there. As best I can tell, such an evaluation would have been pretty damn close to completely inaccurate.

The choice to return to Russia as a catastrophically-failed gamble based on that premise is what makes the most sense to me.

Sport fan clowns always say you have to separate politics from the Olympics. Well guess what my own country is sponsoring athletes because the whole fucking show is just a way for countries to show off. Not sure what we are showing off to be honest- although I did clap for the nice Somali ex refugee lady who is now a professional athlete.
Imagine if all Russians put their energy into making world a better place, instead of killing their neighbours, raping, stealing and corrupting. Sad.
s/Russians/humans/. Absolutely nothing special about Russians here.
The killing the neighbours thing seems a bit more prevalent there than other developed countries.
Indeed, but then not surprising. Russia haven’t ever had developed a mature democracy, it merely had a very brief chance at taking long road of becoming one, and everything went off the rails in just a decade or so. Kind of a handicap when it comes to keeping bloodthirsty politicians and siloviki in check.
I found the top comment on this Reddit thing interesting https://www.reddit.com/r/Objectivism/comments/119vzrk/why_is...
The west is secretly in love with this malevolence, that's why.
Yup, they call it 'mysterious russian soul', while it just a blatant disregard to human life
hm, not much would change. - we'd still see palestine destroyed - iran bombed - iraq bombed - lybia bombed - afganistan bombed - lebanon bombed

Imagine if all countries would put their energy into building peace and prosperity. That would make a difference.

Actually, a lot would change. Each one of the Ukrainian lives destroyed is a whole life destroyed. A damaged car is a setback for a family. There are whole cities and villages razed in Ukraine, fields polluted or rigged with explosives. Countless lives lost; each person's story and potential ended by some Russian's "command-following" drone or missile strike.

No, Russia isn't the only one, but _is_ a cause of a lot of suffering and resources wasted.

A lot would change for a few, not for the 8b people on this planet.
I am considering the absolute impact on those affected, which is the most relevant for this discussion. Millions are not "a few". And it's absolutely unnecessary, the aggressor has always been in the position to pull back and leave (or not attack at all). Everyone but _a few_ war profiteers suffers from war, because it requires hours of work (weapons) diverted towards destroying other hours of work (cars, houses, infrastructure), occupying workers' time by ordering them to kill future workers, all of which could go towards increasing production instead of decreasing it, which does affect global markets and thus people globally.
Both sides had the option to de-escalate. All Ukraine needed to do is to implement Minks agreements instead of killing ppl of donbass.
ah, here comes whataboutism. And you are correct. It would be great if russia didn't destroy Afghanistan and Syria.

Also, equating conflicts is a very shallow and inadequate manipulation tool. For example, russians razed dozens of cities in Ukraine, establish torture and rape chambers, use rape, torture, execution of POW as policy today.

"all wars are bad" doesn't mean that whatever russia does is way worse.

Just pointing out that nothing would change. And you are obviously fixated on Russia. May be broaden your perspective.
only things you point out are russian propaganda points.
that you need to broaden your perspective? Russian propaganda said that about you?
I can play this game too.

Imagine if all Americans put their energy into making world a better place, instead of killing their neighbours, raping, stealing and corrupting. Sad.

Or maybe Westerners stop lying that much.
How it is hacker news now?
Christo does excellent investigative journalism, his curiosity is well aligned with many of the people on this site.
I don't condone doping in tested sports, but I think there needs to be recognition that preventing athletes from modifying their biochemistry turns most sports into a genetic lottery showcase.

Here is what I mean:

Suppose that two men are born, with identical brains, but very different bodies. Both of them have a single desire: to be the fastest sprinter in the world.

Man A)

- Predominantly fast-twitch muscle fiber composition

- Possesses ACTN3 RX genotype [0]

- Testosterone, Growth Hormone, IGF-1 levels at the very upper end of reference range

Man B)

- Predominantly slow-twitch muscle fiber composition

- Possesses ACTN3 XX genotype

- Clinically deficient values of Testosterone, Growth Hormone, IGF-1. Prone to musculoskeletal injuries, possibly connective tissue disorders.

If these two men live an identical life, and put the same amount of effort into training, the second man still has no hope of making it to the Olympics.

Even doping would only be able to correct for hormonal deficiencies, not the genome-level disadvantages for power performance compared to the other athlete.

A truly "fair" sport would pit competitors against each other who had near-identical genetic and physical traits.

The Olympics is just watching the people who won genetic lotteries.

[0]: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11014841/

> A truly "fair" sport would pit competitors against each other who had near-identical genetic and physical traits.

That's what the Olympics is. The men's 100m final pits against each other the fastest 8 men who are in their physical prime, full of fast twitch muscles, with West African descent. With some minor noise.

If you want to watch people from other genotype buckets run 10-50% slower, you can watch the women's event or the Paralympics or, like, the All-Vietnam U-16 event. It seems churlish to complain that not every bucket is on TV at a convenient time for you.

> preventing athletes from modifying their biochemistry turns most sports into a genetic lottery showcase.

Genetics are necessary to a point, and are not at all sufficient.

Any follower of a sport knows of athletes with incredible genetic blessings who accomplish little or nothing because they lack the hard work, discipline, focus, skill, emotional management, teamwork, etc. to succeed. And that sample omits far more athletes whose non-genetic limitations caused them to drop out or fail out before making it to the level where public is aware of them.

At the same time, the GOATs (greatest of all time) in many sports were not particularly blessed genetically, relative to other top atheletes:

* Football / soccer: Lionel Messi: 5'7", ~160 lbs., and had growth hormone deficiency [0], and is small, and not particularly fast or strong. "Messi’s “software” is what often gives him a head-start on those who physically should have the better of him." If you're interested, this article describes it in some detail: [1]

* American football: Tom Brady was notoriously unathletic, setting records for poor performance in the NFL's scouting 'combine' where draft prospects are compared in standardized tests. Also didn't have a strong throwing arm.

* Basketball is an exception: Michael Jordan was supremely athletic.

* Baseball: Babe Ruth was overweight, not known to be particularly fast or athletic, and played a position for relatively poor athletes who could hit: right field (gets the fewest plays, usually doesn't require more than running to a spot and throwing).

* Hockey: Wayne Gretzky was relatively small, not very fast, didn't have a hard shot.

* Tennis? Boxing? Cricket? Rugby?

These people are far more athletic than ordinary people, of course; I'm comparing them to other professionals in their sports.

[0] Wikipedia

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4008225/2022/12/16/lionel-m...

Olympics are literally a showcase of the genetic lottery. We can have Testtube Olympics alongside Special Olympics if there is sufficient interest.
1988 All-Drug Olympics (SNL Weekend Update sketch)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAdG-iTilWU

No, the olympics are a doping competition, and a meta-competition of “who is better at not getting detected.”

In general, the statement “if they got a medal, they cheated” is true so much of the time that it becomes a sensible default assumption. And it sucks for the few that didn’t cheat.

It’s best of competition, not everybody at the same time on finish line equity gathering.
So the olympic games do pit near-identical competitors against each other.

> The Olympics is just watching the people who won genetic lotteries.

So? The olympic games should be the pinnacle of human performance (fed by their nation's interests). Of course it is lotteries all the way from the genetics, to what country you're born in, right to the national lottery putting money in to sports.

Your alternatives are either a proliferation of categories or random people assembling every four years to roll dice to determine the winner. Neither is exciting.

There's no inherent reason that the second man couldn't make it to the Olympics in the air pistol event.
Most sports are a genetic lottery showcase regardless of how many drugs you take.
Yeah so athletes with more money and better access to doping products win instead.

Hard pass.

Also will encourage athletes to give themselves long term health issues for short term performance gains.
I'm of the "your body, your choice" mind

To me the decision to take PED's doesn't feel different than being an alcoholic or having an abortion.

I wouldn't recommend anyone become an alcoholic, but it's their life and people ought to have the freedom of choice.

I’m not sure kids in competitive sports will be able to make an informed decision without any pressure.
Sure, adults should be able to take PEDs if they want to. But there's no reason to allow doping cheaters to enter sanctioned competitive events. It's no different from forcing all competitors to follow equipment rules. Like for the discus throw everyone has to use the same weight. Or for bike racing you can't install a motor.
Would you think it a poor dynamic if a company offered to pay people a good salary simply to be heavy sustained drinkers, but only for some limited amount of time? I'd say the problem is that the Moloch attractor tends to undermine this lofty ideal of "freedom of choice".
At least that produces tangible value for the rest of us this way.

Current idea of sports is that athletes wreck themselves for mere performance value (and money to the people who set it up, with a bit trickling down to athletes for enabling it all). As far as I understand, nothing they directly do is otherwise reusable to anyone else.

I’d rather watch a live commercial for human enhancement industries. At least that’s something that eventually becomes available to everyone.

What's the point of this post? You're missing the forest for the trees. It's like saying racing is driver against driver, not driver and car against driver and car. Motivation has NEVER made up for physical fitness, never will, and never should. The olympics are about the human body first.

  > What's the point of this post?
I don't see the Olympics as a particularly "fair" sport in the first place, in the sense of "fair" meaning "without favoritism" because physical capability is a vast spectrum.