Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
O1 Visa Hacks for Founders (extraordinaryaliens.substack.com)
46 points by almost_naomi 794 days ago
8 comments

This is dangerously reckless. VISA fraud will get you banned and deported. Possibly jailed. I wouldn't recommend any of that as an American who was once not a citizen and had multiple VISAs and renewals before becoming one.

O1 is the wrong VISA for business people and especially someone young. It's easy to get if you have press - i.e. you are a celebrity, actor or singer. It's much easier to get an H1 if you have business contacts and sufficient education. I got mine at 24 off the back of a hard science degree from the UK.

This writer also doesn't seem to understand the process. The bar isn't fixed. If they managed to get an O1 because the person looking at their application was wowed by a few mundane listed connections and achievements, the next time they likely won't be. It's incredibly personal and the person reviewing each case has essentially final say. It's not like the DMV where they are just checking boxes. They have enormous leeway.

Two examples. I overstayed a VISA once before leaving the US. I went into an embassy in a foreign country where I was living and explained that it was a mistake and why I needed to re-enter. The agent took my passport (not US obviously) and told me to come back in a few hours. They gave me a 10 year VISA based on a single conversation despite the fact I had broken a rule.

Secondly when I went for an interview with my American fiancee, the agent asked me if I liked a painting. I said yes and he said he'd painted it. We then all talked about art for 30 mins. Nothing else. No other questions. This was the interview when they are supposed to be working out if you are a real couple or just people trying to swing residency based on a fake marriage. We left and he rubber stamped it.

So this person got lucky and possibly committed fraud. Don't do it. Be smart, be serious. I did it all without a lawyer (after my first VISA and renewal). It cost almost nothing except flights and things like medical charges.

The only thing I had going for me is that I'm reasonably nice, my English is native (I'm British) and I had no criminal record of any kind whatsoever. With that it's plain sailing.

Your interview with your fiancée went exactly as it is supposed to. They were able to establish that you do appear to be who you say you are: a British subject, with a native command of English and appropriate cultural knowledge (and thus low risk for sham marriage). Probably worked in a few questions about what museum the two of you liked best from your travels.

I had to explain that to my wife one time when we drove across the land border from Canada. She was asleep, so I had to wake her up and get her to speak (briefly) to the agent. “Why the questions?” she asked me after we were through. “Because your passport says you’re an American citizen born in Texas; you have to sound like an American. For all he knows, I’m trying human traffic someone.”

I found myself thinking “oh wow I hope I get enough criteria to be approved” and then remembered I’m a US Citizen and do not, in fact, need to get an O1.
Unless you want to live somewhere else with a similar visa!
Immigration “hacks” sound dangerously close to immigration fraud, no?
Not fraud if all you share is true!

The thing most people don't understand about the O1 is that it's on your lawyer to prove that you're going to build is important and that you're legit. The large majority don't understand tech and will likely not have a clue what you're doing.

The O1 is a visa for actors and artists; it's not all about founders. So I wouldn't expect them to know what YC is, Github, or anything technical.

Always consult am immigration lawyer, just help them understand what you do.

Does anyone know non hacking ways of getting an O1? like, what is the spirit of the law? Is it an invention or a company where you have 10 employees? Or is everything just gray legality?
Do not use "hack" because DHS chooses to take these words literally or figuratively as they see fit and have full discretion to do so. It's also administrative so you aren't entitled to free counsel. O-1 can be used for extraordinarily talented scientists and engineers who HAVE ALREADY innovated. Having a Github doesn't count. We're talking Shohei Ohtani level broadly speaking. If you built Github from scratch, you MIGHT have a case. It is dual intent, but whether you are able to actually obtain a green card entirely depends on your nation of origin. It's easy for everyone unless you're from China, India, the Phillipines, and Mexico, in which case, you may die of old age before it's your turn.
O1 is 'aliens of extraordinary ability'. There's a special category for arts, which helps movie/tv stars come and film in the US. Major league sports talent can qualify.

My understanding is it's intended for people who are top talent in their fields to come here and work for an indefinite time (up to 3 years initially, with 1 year extensions). It's not a visa intended for immigration, although the article says you may be able to change status to eb-1 with similar qualifications.

Personally, some of the things people suggest to do to check the boxes sounds iffy... but if USCIS is happy, I guess it's fine? As long as the evidence provided is truthful; even if I wouldn't find it compelling.

USCIS is more than happy to gloss over your application if you're coming from Europe. Or Canada. Or places like Singapore. Otherwise, well, they once asked to provide proof that the Archdiocese of San Antonio actually exists, even though it has existed for longer than America had immigration laws and can be found on Google. And no, I couldn't reply with a lmgtfy link, even though I really desperately wanted to. Since they have so much discretion and an institutional culture of suspicion that is so obviously racist that they literally kept some of the very outdated wording from the 1880s-1920s in the statutes and regs today, if they pick on you, a tax audit can feel like a walk in the park. Working in a public interest firm I was passed a file containing a 28 year old case that has yet to be resolved, leaving the client, who has been living in Queens all this time, without legal status even though he had entered the country legally as an infant and child of a US citizen, because a fire destroyed one set of his entry records and USPS sent the other copy to the wrong address, with no backup. And at the time of his birth his mother was legally speaking a US citizen but have yet to receive paperwork as she was serving in the army in Berlin, the only official record of his birth plus his current status plus the uncertainty of his entry into the country and all the shenanigans resulted in him getting removed, and having smuggle himself back in. Removed to Mexico that is, even though his mother is from Belize. I worked the case for 3 years and had to pass it off to the next guy. This is not unique, and entirely neither the fault of his mom or himself, but thems the breaks.
If you have a Thiel fellowship and are struggling to get an O1 you need a better lawyer.
Garbage in garbage out. Lawyers can't make up shit since most don't have a plan B if they're in immigration - it's not the highest paying, extremely specialized, and pretty much requires you to be multilingual. Only some of the skillset translate and much of it requires you to move to DC. Consular processing is less bout the lawyer but really entirely down to how the counselor official feels and if they slept poorly the night before you can get a sudden spike in rejections for no other reason than rejection is easier than approval. But if you really have a bad case, no amount of makeup can cover that gigantic sore in your paperwork, Thiel or no Thiel.
Minor nitpick:

> Do it only if it’s an impressive host/podcast that is available across multiple platforms (Apple podcast, Spotify).

Aren't essentially all podcasts on Apple also available on Spotify? (due to the open nature of the podcast technology)

A parallegal I work with told me he has argued that the podcasts have a wide audience because they're available across multiple platforms (vs a niche website).

So don't bother if it's someone's personal blog but if it's a regular podcast that's been running for a bit and is available widely, an interview with them is good!

You would still need to submit your podcast to Spotify for it to be available there. It could also be an Apple exclusive (paid for example) podcast which would not be available everywhere, same of course for Spotify exclusives.
Is that true? I've heard multiple podcasters complain that they can't get their shows off of Spotify and ask their audiences not to listen there.
If they hosted on Anchor they might have been included by default, but otherwise you have to submit your podcast and it's also possible to take it down again. Never heard of anyone having problems with that.
Can confirm that I have friends/others get the O1 that basically just have a bigtech role, and they talk it up a bit. Seems this has recently gotten quite easy.
Because those who didn't get it... don't talk about it. Also, as of the latest policy manual at https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-2-part-m-chapter-... you can basically paper-mill your authorship into fulfilling a criteria, but that would just indicate that regs, when promulgated according to procedure, takes time. It doesn't insulate you from future adverse effects like removal or theoretically indefinite detention or criminal charges.
> Wiring your savings in your startup bank account is an option here.

agh

that was my favorite part too - anybody can get a visa to move to the US - just wire yourself a couple years of US level salaries. easy.
Go one step further, wire yourself a hefty retirement package without leaving your country and forget the startup!
Exactly. Living a happy life is what mattees
As usual, having access to lots of money is the real hack here.

Also, I'm not your lawyer (or even a lawyer). But when someone says something like this....

> Think about the O1 as a fundraising process—it’s storytelling. You’re pitching the government on why they should invest in you long-term. Rather than “ticking boxes” with criteria, you need to think about how to structure the narrative so it’s compelling to the reader. The criteria and evidence, such as letters, support that overarching narrative.

...my spidey-sense starts tingling and I head for the door. The idea that you should "structure a narrative" when dealing with law enforcement (and immigration in particular) seems like just terrible terrible advice of the sort that could seriously mess up someone's life. I have a decent risk tolerance for some things, but this feels like someone telling you to douse yourself with gasoline and light a match[1].

[1] I mean, what's the worst that could happen? You want to be warm don't you?

The O1 is a visa for models, actors, artists, chefs, etc...

It's, in essence, a storytelling exercise whether you're Brad Pitt or the best pizza chef in Italy. They ask you to show why you're "extraordinary"

It's essential to make the Immigration Officer understand what you're doing. If all you share is true, it's not fraud in any way.

Lawyers aren't trained to understand what is a machine learning engineer and why what you're doing is important. USCIS agents don't know anything about tech and what YC is either. This isn't a visa for founders, it covers every talent category.

So it's on you to help them understand, to share the story.

Always consult a lawyer whatever you do, just help them out.

The article says a couple months is fine. No idea if it works that way though!
In practice — I've heard some founders done it with 2-4. It's better to have a year.

Like all things with immigration it's always case by case

A lot of machine learning engineers in SF are stuck at big cos on H1Bs with huge salaries, so they're able to pull their savings into the company.

Either way, just important to know that you don't need to raise 1M to get an O1.