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AWS Works Council Germany (aws-works-council-initiative.de)
33 points by throwaccthrow 1032 days ago
6 comments

As a member of the Red Hat Germany works council I congratulate our friends at AWS for doing the right thing and hope we can soon have a discussion!
For those who (like me) didn't know what a Works Council is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_council#Germany

TL;DR: It's a non-union form of worker representation with separate legal status in countries like France and Germany. While not unions, their existence isn't incompatible with unionization.

Do these work councils actually work? What incentive do they have to side with an employee over the company? Wouldn't it be the first aim of the HR department to get as cosy with them as possible?
Works councils represent the interests of the employees and work very well in my experience. AFAIK companies with strong workers representation do a lot better than those without. Council members are elected on a yearly basis. By law they cannot be dismissed and they get a say in topics concerning workers rights. Want to introduce a software benchmarking workers performance? Good luck getting it approved by the council. They are also present during job interviews to ensure applicants are treated fairly and equally. They make sure your job stays family friendly and healthy. There are actually often council members in HR questioning managers why their employees work overtime.
IME a (good) works council can smoothen out a lot of misunderstandings between management and employees before they blow up into real problems, especially when it comes to the legal side of things. You can think of the works council as the counter-weight to HR (e.g. HR keeps employees in check while a works council keeps management in check).
Yes. They work. They decide on new hires. On many other things. By law they have a lot of rights. Disclaimer: I am an elected member of the Red Hat Germany works council.
> They decide on new hires.

That honestly does NOT reassure me. I'm getting flashbacks to being chosen last during football practice. While I can convince tech leads of my skills, I have never been a very popular guy and when it comes to being judged by a crowd, I fear they will pick the guy who is more handsome, taller, or Biodeutsch, or who has a more „sympathisch“ profile.

It's nothing like that at all.

They have no powers to make any subjective judgements about hiring. They can only object to a hiring if the company has contradicted the law or it's own policies.

For instance if the company makes a team of Android developers redundant on Monday and then hires an external Android developer on Tuesday, the Works Council would want to know a very good reason why one of the potential internal candidates was not selected instead.

I guess a company could ask their opinion if they wanted to, but they are not legally compelled to do so. In my experience no-one from the works council is physically present in interviews either. They are just informed afterwards that a hiring decision is made and they have to approve or reject it.

That sounds much more reasonable.
It's fair to say that it depends a lot on the people on the works council. A good works council is superb, a mediocre council just says yes to everything the company leaders want, and a bad one can make life very annoying for employees and the company itself.
That depends heavily on the organization. Our works council technically approves hires but realistically has little influence on most decisions
The fact that this uses the AWS branding must send the marketing folks at Amazon into absolute fits of rage.
Footer: © Amazon Web Services EMEA SARL (Niederlassung Deutschland)

This is probably the AWS lead initiative to place their preferred people into a council they see being formed anyways.

As someone working in Germany, that seems unlikely to me. A works council influenced by the company would like be struck down quickly, senior/mid management (e.g. directors and up) are even disallowed to participate/be elected as far as I know.

Its more likely to me that they use that copyright as they are an official and legal part of the company as works council.

Works councils are legally recognized parts of their companies and generally use company branding, besides of course using the company offices, work hours and infrastructure to conduct their legally-protected business.
Pretty sure employees would benefit from a union. It's too little too late for whatever this is trying to be, IMO.
This is a German works council, which is the most common outcome of a unionization effort: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_council#Germany

Its creation can be forced by a vote of the employees and the council has a legal special status. This probably comes as a reaction to multiple distribution centers around Germany doing exactly that and forcing the creation of local work councils with the help of unions.

It's a common thing in German companies of all sizes and usually a good thing for the company too because problems between management and workforce are usually solved in a much less "confrontational" way compared to full-blown unionization (especially in smaller family-owned "Mittelstand" businesses).
Unions and Works Councils are not mutually exclusive. All companies that have a recognized Union will have a Works Council too.

A Works Council is entirely company specific. A Union is usually concerned with an entire sector and deals with company-specific issues only a limited way. In practice the Union organisations often provide assistance and advice to a Works Council, even to companies in which they are not active as a Union.

You might want to research German employment law a bit more...
Majority of Amazon employees exist outside Germany.
Well this is about Germany specifically
Often union members are elected into works councils.

It's basically like a government of the company and a union is just another party that can get elected.

In the German IT world no. Unions are not needed for a works council. Our works council has 11 members of which one is a union member. 10 are not.
Yes, I didn't mean they are required.

It's just that the only way a union member can get into a work council is getting elected just like every other employee.