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Final nail in the coffin of Red Hat rebuilds? (redhat.com)
58 points by ustrin 1097 days ago
8 comments

For those who are out of the loop, like I was, here is how I'm understanding this...

"CentOS" tracked behind RHEL, and is considered more stable? Regardless, CentOS 7 is the last supported major version, and it's reaching EOL soon and will not be maintained. This sounds like a push to get those who use CentOS (free) to move to RHEL (paid) to stay in the long-cycle ecosystem.

"CentOS Stream" is a flavor that tracks ahead of RHEL, is less stable, and is really meant for those who develop on RHEL.

Since the original CentOS is no longer supported, you had new flavors come up (specifically Rocky Linux and Alma Linux) designed to fill the void to track behind RHEL.

However, it appears they rely on the open-source RHEL for their builds. It sounds like this is going away now, and the only open-source linux RedHat is gonna publish freely is CentOS Stream.

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or missed something!

Backports are important for long term support. Say, you have some-pkg-1.2.5-83.el9.x86_64, CentOS Stream will have some-pkg-2.10.32-3.el9.x86_64 (with extra features, enhancments, security fixes), while customers want just CVEs to be back ported to some-pkg-1.2.x

This creates problems for long term support, as it requires more resources, who understand the code base for some-pkg in order to apply selective fixes. Right now, if one knows how to build rpms and how to integrate them is enough to become a clone of downstream RHEL.

I think, only Oracle can pull off this feat, as they can put more people to work to solve this problems. 1:1 compatibility becomes hard, as 1000+ packages need to be taken care of.

Old centOS is just a RHEL clone. The only supported version is CentOS 7, which is clone of RHEL 7
Isn’t it like all these alternative distributions have to do is buy one license for RHEL and get the sources RedHat uses?
In practice, yes.

In theory, no, because the license strictly prohibits this. They'd get sued into oblivion or their first release.

Is this statement about the license fact or theory? If you deliver GPL software you have to release everything for redistribution.
I covered my take on the situation at length, here:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/06/23/red_hat_centos_move/

It has been cited by, among others, Bradley Kuhn of the Software Freedom Conservancy, which is probably some of the highest praise I've received in my career to date.

I suggest reading that and then if you have further points or questions I will be happy to try to address them.

You wrote

> customers [...] are under the terms of a contract, which overrides the GPL license of the code itself

Do you have a source for this claim? Why would the contract be legally stronger than the license?

GPL prohibits further restrictions on rights of the code recipient. Contractual terms are sometimes found unlawful/invalid by courts. I guess this question can really be resolved only by a court.

This is awful. It seems Red Hat (and probably IBM) are unhappy that Alma and Rocky have so successfully replaced the old CentOS.
Why? Afaik they are build from Centos Stream, just like RHEL. So nothing changes.
Neither are building from CentOS Stream - they are building from the same source that is in the final RHEL release, not a rolling release like CentOS Stream.
How? Rocky Linux is a RHEL clone, and RHEL isn't a direct copy from CentOS stream
I thought they were using git.centos.org which used to be the RHEL sources?

Centos stream sources are what will become the next RHEL major or minor release. So if(?) RH is adding further stuff on top of Centos stream after forking those changes would not be available to non-customers?

Then why is Red Hat doing this?
Because they're just IBM with a hat on now.
Management doesn't directly know the pain of an engineer. This business heirarchy is akin to management being the body's "hands" while engineers are the "feet". This easily accommodates the option of shooting one's self in the foot.
One of the FAANGs has/had exclusive deal with Oracle for Oracle Enterprise Linux, as Oracle charges a way less than Redhat does. Redhat/IBM figured out how many large enterprises use Oracle Linux; now they want to go after those enterprise customers to show more return on investment, as IBM paid $34B to acquire Redhat.
Another irritating move from Red Hat, likely driven by their unhappiness with the popularity of Alma/Rocky instead of a mass migration to RHEL they had probably hoped for.

As the source is still available, but not publicly, could it be that these alternate flavours enter in to a license agreement with Red Hat that's community funded?

I think what Red Hat did to CentOS is a real shame. But seeing that it's Red Hat, it's not surprising.
True but misses the real point, which is that RH should never have acquired CentOS in the first place.
I don't think I missed the real point. That point was the major part of what I was saying.

Sadly, Red Hat is the Microsoft of the Linux world, and so I grieve for anything they touch.

the community was dying, the single digit people maintaining it wanted to quit doing it
I've heard similar before. So? The problem with that for RH was what, exactly?

There was White Box Linux, Scientific Linux, PUIAS Linux, etc. And Oracle Linux of course.

How does that work out with the GPL?
It works out ok. The GPL only requires Red Hat to provide the source code to its users, not the whole world. A license requiring publication on the internet would be considered non-free by the GNU project. It would also be rejected by Debian because it would fail the Desert Island test [1].

[1] https://wiki.debian.org/DesertIslandTest

What a massive hole in the GPL, and its wild it would be considered "non-free" when most people would actually consider it free. Another reason I do not like that license.
But can Red Hat restrict its users from further distributing the source code or would they be allowed to do that?
They can't, but they could do something like GRSecurity, saying that they would end their contract with / stop giving anybody who distributes it further updates.
All customers of Redhat should start daily sync of all source RPMs. That way, Redhat can't find out who is sharing source RPMs with Alma and Rocky. Right now, customers just sync binary RPMs.
Wow. Redhat / IBM is no longer going to publicly make the source code to RHEL releases available. Alma and Rocky Linux literally just died.

Screw you IBM... and the creepy Linux kids coattails that ya rode in on.

Is there a link to rockylinux or almalinux expectation of this news? I just finalized choosing Rockylinux for our next generation HPC clusters!

[edit] this is the link: https://rockylinux.org/news/2023-06-22-press-release/

You cannot just use arbitrary titles. Needs to be renamed to "Furthering the evolution of CentOS Stream"